Dan Durston/Massdrop X-Mid
- Thread starter theoctagon
- Start date
dandurston
Section Hiker
Yeah the Silpoly version is the well-rounded version. So it's more fully featured and durable. It's a double skin shelter, #5 zippers, dual vents, beefier guyouts etc and still quite light at 28oz.
Then the DCF version is going to be a more specialized shelter that is going to be as light as possible (15-16oz) but not as well rounded because it's a single skin, single vent, smaller gauge zippers etc. So not as good in tough weather conditions. Basically everything on the DCF version has been designed to be as light as possible, so that comes at the expense of some features and durability. It'll still be a pretty nicely featured shelter (e.g. dual doors, dual vestibules, one peak vent, good space) but not as much as the silpoly version. Obviously it'll cost a lot more, and it's about a year behind the silpoly version in development. I'm still working on the design drawings for the first prototype. I hope to have the design refined by next summer and then production would take a while longer yet.
Then the DCF version is going to be a more specialized shelter that is going to be as light as possible (15-16oz) but not as well rounded because it's a single skin, single vent, smaller gauge zippers etc. So not as good in tough weather conditions. Basically everything on the DCF version has been designed to be as light as possible, so that comes at the expense of some features and durability. It'll still be a pretty nicely featured shelter (e.g. dual doors, dual vestibules, one peak vent, good space) but not as much as the silpoly version. Obviously it'll cost a lot more, and it's about a year behind the silpoly version in development. I'm still working on the design drawings for the first prototype. I hope to have the design refined by next summer and then production would take a while longer yet.
Thanks. One thing (amongst others!) that has changed my mind about the X-Mid is using Silpoly as it doesn’t stretch. A major reason for getting a DCF Duomid vs a Silnylon one (which I used to have) was to solve the sag problem. It’s not so much of an issue on tents that use structural poles (like the TT Scarp), but is a bit of a pain in shelters that use trekking poles. As Silpoly doesn’t stretch, there is less utility in using a DCF substitute flysheet. A DCF hybrid seems a very attractive option if your focus is on weight saving. To me, a DCF X-Mid looks a lot more attractive than other DCF hybrid shelters from a structural and weather protection perspective. If you can pull off a DCF hybrid for 16ozs, I reckon you’ll see a lot of demand from SUL backpackers, especially in the US, where they seem to work well. Any views on the move to zipperless doors? I’m a bit sceptical for windy weather.
Hopefully your plans will come together. If there’s a Silpoly/solid inner version, I’d be very tempted to order one. I’d even consider a DCF hybrid, which is something I’ve never done before. Bonne chance!
dandurston
Section Hiker
Yeah the no sag of silpoly is awesome. It's so great to wake up in the morning and have your tent look as it good as it did when you pitched it. After experiencing that you can't go back to silnylon. Agreed that this is quite a bit more important for a trekking pole supported shelter, than one with traditional poles that have some spring to them.
There's no solid inner for the first production run of the X-Mid 1P, but hopefully this can be done in future production runs. I've requested this option for the X-Mid 2P that I am developing now, so there's a good chance that the next prototype I get will be a solid inner. My rough guess for the 1P is that we'll sell out the first production run in the next couple months and then probably do a second run next summer, with delivery still 6-8 months after that. So there could be solid inners for the 1P in late 2019/ early 2020.
There's no solid inner for the first production run of the X-Mid 1P, but hopefully this can be done in future production runs. I've requested this option for the X-Mid 2P that I am developing now, so there's a good chance that the next prototype I get will be a solid inner. My rough guess for the 1P is that we'll sell out the first production run in the next couple months and then probably do a second run next summer, with delivery still 6-8 months after that. So there could be solid inners for the 1P in late 2019/ early 2020.
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dandurston
Section Hiker
Yup, back up.
Some folks were curious about how the 1P sleeps two if you don't use the inner. It actually work quite well. It's basically the same floor area as a DuoMid but a lot more headroom/volume.
Some folks were curious about how the 1P sleeps two if you don't use the inner. It actually work quite well. It's basically the same floor area as a DuoMid but a lot more headroom/volume.
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dandurston
Section Hiker
It's slightly awkward but totally do-able.
At the peaks you've got buckles (rather than clips) so these are easy to undo and easy to reach because they are right outside either door. So you'd open one door, reach up and unclip the buckle and then drop the tent down around you so you're basically sitting up while poking through a door. Then you can easily reach the other peak unbuckle it there too, so you end up sitting on the floor protruding from a pile of mesh.
Next you'd need to unclip the floor. This does use clips rather than buckles because 6 buckles was too heavy. At the corners you can clip the clips to either the D-rings or the grosgrain. If you clip it to the grosgrain it can fall apart when it's not under tension (e.g. being packed up), so the D-rings are more solid, but if you know you might want to remove it then I'd just clip to the grosgrain and then the clips will easily slide off. So you'd have to move around a little bit on the floor to unclip all the corners, but nothing too hard. Then the only awkward move is actually getting off the floor, which isn't that hard to do since there is a lot of headroom/volume. You'd pull the floor away from one side, step over to there, and then pack up the inner.
I've done it and it's reasonable if you've got heavy condensation and want to keep the inner dry.
At the peaks you've got buckles (rather than clips) so these are easy to undo and easy to reach because they are right outside either door. So you'd open one door, reach up and unclip the buckle and then drop the tent down around you so you're basically sitting up while poking through a door. Then you can easily reach the other peak unbuckle it there too, so you end up sitting on the floor protruding from a pile of mesh.
Next you'd need to unclip the floor. This does use clips rather than buckles because 6 buckles was too heavy. At the corners you can clip the clips to either the D-rings or the grosgrain. If you clip it to the grosgrain it can fall apart when it's not under tension (e.g. being packed up), so the D-rings are more solid, but if you know you might want to remove it then I'd just clip to the grosgrain and then the clips will easily slide off. So you'd have to move around a little bit on the floor to unclip all the corners, but nothing too hard. Then the only awkward move is actually getting off the floor, which isn't that hard to do since there is a lot of headroom/volume. You'd pull the floor away from one side, step over to there, and then pack up the inner.
I've done it and it's reasonable if you've got heavy condensation and want to keep the inner dry.
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dandurston
Section Hiker
Also, it's really easy to remove the inner from outside of the tent, which is actually a cool feature since you can get up in the morning, get packed up and out of the tent, and then remove the inner if the fly is really wet and you want to keep the inner dry. So there's no twisting around inside to remove it.
To remove it from outside, you can reach in the two large vents to easily unbuckle the peaks, and then walk around the tent and unclip the clips just inside each corner. Then slide it out (or remove it via the door). With most tents you can't easily do that because the vents are too small or non-existent so you can't reach the peak connections. And most of them use clips at the peaks yet you can barely reach one hand in the vent, so it's a hard or impossible move to undo the peaks. Of course with many other tents you could unzip the doors to get at the peaks so I'm not saying it can't be done in other tents, just that's it's really quick and easy to do with the X-Mid.
Anders Hansen
Summit Camper
@dandurston any news on 2p with solid inner?
dandurston
Section Hiker
I'm supposed to be getting the second prototype of the 2P any day now and that one is supposed to have a solid inner if the factory could find a material that matches the specs I wanted. Assuming we can find that, the 2P will be available in either option. We do need to find a stock material that works well because if we only make 1/3rd of the tents like that then we wouldn't have the volumes to get a good price on a custom material like we are doing for the fly.
Anders Hansen
Summit Camper
Awsome, cant wait to see some pics. Currently holding back from buying TT Strat 2 because of the possibility of the 2p X-Mid. Rather keep my Nigor Wicki-up for another year and wait for the x-mid. if the weight and value are right
dandurston
Section Hiker
Like this?
Here's a solid inner. The decision to make this is almost entirely attributable to the comments from this forum, so thanks for the feedback there. Any comments on this? I lean towards less mesh (just enough to look outside and also vent) because I want it to be as warm as possible in the winter, but I know many other solid inners have more mesh.
slovhike
Thru Hiker
@dandurston nice. So the fly footprint is the same as 1P only inners are different to accomodate one/two person?
Like this?
Here's a solid inner. The decision to make this is almost entirely attributable to the comments from this forum, so thanks for the feedback there. Any comments on this? I lean towards less mesh (just enough to look outside and also vent) because I want it to be as warm as possible in the winter, but I know many other solid inners have more mesh.
Difficult to make a judgment from the picture, but that looks a reasonable size for a mesh vent. Would it not be simpler to manufacture just to have the mesh panel on the door? Adding a little weight and complexity, you could make it a closeable vent with a panel of fabric, then you get the best of both worlds. That said, I’d be happy with the one you’ve pictured.
WilliamC
Thru Hiker
I believe from things Dan has said earlier that the fly is different as well as the inners.
SafetyThird
Section Hiker
Dan, what does the prototype 2P weigh?
Mole
Thru Hiker
Moved around the corner to the steep side by the look of it?
Not convinced yet, that the aerodynamics of those steep sides will make it (any) better in wind than a Stratospire.
tallest of pauls
Section Hiker
The whole solid inner thing seems abit lost to me when it isn't really a winter tent with all that unsupported fabric.
I'll still get one though so it can sit in the cupboard with the 1 person version I've already ordered..
I'll still get one though so it can sit in the cupboard with the 1 person version I've already ordered..
Anders Hansen
Summit Camper
I like it! The solid inner is to me just perfect and the mesh panel is big enough. two thumbs up from me!