Pack News - a thread for new pack talk
- Thread starter murpharoo
- Start date
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
@Lempo - I didn't mean the pack but all the stuff he was pulling out of it ...(though one and half pounds would be my personal limit for a 3 season pack
Ah ok, yes. Outdoor Vitals is a funny one. They have some interesting gear but also a strange selection. A bit all over the place. They even have a nice looking lightweight merino hoodie that I'm tempted with. The Shadowlight pack has some interesting ideas.
Alf Outdoors
F.K.A tarptent
The Shadowlight 45 weighs 1lb 14.5oz (864.6g)...That is not ultralight!!!
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Odd Man
Thru Hiker
What's the official weight limit for ultralight packs?
Alf Outdoors
F.K.A tarptent
Well given the Bonfus Saccus 48 litre only weighs 350g, which is 514.6g grams lighter than the smaller Shadowlight 45, I would say any 35-50 litre pack under 500g is ultralight.
My 35 litre pack weighs 785g, so it's not ultralight...And neither is the Shadowlight 45.
Mole
Thru Hiker
Nonsense
One widely accepted Ultralight idea, is that the "big 3" items in your c5kg or under baseweight weigh no more than 3kg in total. The big 3 being shelter, pack and sleep system.
E.g
If my shelter weighs 1kg, my sleep gear 750g, then it's totally possible and acceptable to have a pack weighing 1.25kg and still have an Ultralight setup.
Some people prefer (or even need for their comfort) a framed pack like an Osprey Exos or Gossamer Gear Gorilla.
I've often hiked with people who have pack models far lighter than mine, but they are carrying more weight overall because they are carrying more stuff.(And have a less comfortable carry because of this).
Who's the more ultralight then? Who cares?
Balagan
Thru Hiker
The DCF Z-Pack Zero weighed all of 114 grams back in 2012. And the very first Zero was advertised as weighing 65 grams though it was little more than a stuff sack. Things change.
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Franky
Section Hiker
tom
Thru Hiker
@Allsquare - here is Nero page reposted - all 310gr of it ...
https://www.trek-lite.com/index.php?threads/zpacks-nero-backpack.9080/https://www.trek-lite.com/index.php?threads/zpacks-nero-backpack.9080/
https://www.trek-lite.com/index.php?threads/zpacks-nero-backpack.9080/https://www.trek-lite.com/index.php?threads/zpacks-nero-backpack.9080/
Alf Outdoors
F.K.A tarptent
That was for the smallest version, which was only 27.5 litres, which is too small to be used for wild camping so it is irrelevent in this conversation.
The 36 litre version was truly ultralight though, as it only weighed 119g, and so was the 44 litre version which weighed 130.4g.
But, as you said yourself, they were available back in 2012, but they are not available anymore, so it is pretty pointless discussing packs you can't buy anymore.
Alf Outdoors
F.K.A tarptent
No, because I was not referring to loaded pack weight...I was referring to how much so called ultralight packs weigh when empty, and a pack weighing 1.25kg is definitely a heavy pack, not an ultralight one.
Balagan
Thru Hiker
What's relevant is that a lot of people have already gone down that rabbit hole and crawled back out again.
PS: there already is a thread from last year on Bonfus discussing their packs so excited gushing about the world's lightest pack isn't exactly relevant to a discussion on new packs...
Alf Outdoors
F.K.A tarptent
Love to see your gear list...or a trip report
I know my backpack is heavier than I would like (785g) and I keep finding new items that will save me more weight, like the Iterus, but I don't have to money to buy them, so I will just have to make do with what I have for the foreseeable future.
Like the mesh pouch I keep my Tomshoo 750ml pot in, which weighs 15g, but a TreadLite Gear version, in DCF, is only 4g, so that would save me another 11g (£11.99) and my DD Superlight XL tarp weighs 685g, but the DD Superlight Pyramid Tent only weighs 460g, so that would be save me another 225g more (£91+£10 postage)...If I could get the Iterus as well (£191), I will have saved 756g just with those three items, but I will have had to spend about £304 to save that much weight!...I'm on universal credit, thanks to Covid, and I am overdrawn at the bank every month, so these are just dream items for me.
Alf Outdoors
F.K.A tarptent
Not sure...We are supposed to have a free trade agreement with the EU...So maybe there will be no customs fees?
WilliamC
Thru Hiker
I believe that the Bonfus products are made in Mexico so wouldn't be covered by the free trade agreement.
EM-Chiseller
Thru Hiker
tom
Thru Hiker
@tarptent - might be worthwhile to bear the purpose of UL in mind - which is not "the lightest kit" or such similar.
UL evolved to enable larger food carries while avoiding injuries and accidents caused by too heavy loads. A low base weight isn't a big issue for an overnighter or a long weekend but it matters hugely on a thru-hike when I need to load my pack up with approx 7 days food. And perhaps carry kit for colder temps or snow/ice conditions higher up.
Secondly, every pack is a compromise - we are all different and adapt differently to thru-hike challenges. Some people are happy with a zpacks Nero for a PCT thru-hike. I wouldn't be personally - but it's been a great pack for 5 day alpine hikes. And great to carry my snowshoes and crampons for overnighters in deep snow conditions in the Pyrenees.
Most people try a few packs before hitting the 'right one' and that may change again every few years - certainly does for me. Bit comfort when carrying 12kg after a resupply is a priority for me - so my compromise is to cut out all fluff "features" many pack makers seem to love so much but I wouldn't even look at a pack without side pockets and a large rear mesh one - but each to our own (currently an Atom+)
UL evolved to enable larger food carries while avoiding injuries and accidents caused by too heavy loads. A low base weight isn't a big issue for an overnighter or a long weekend but it matters hugely on a thru-hike when I need to load my pack up with approx 7 days food. And perhaps carry kit for colder temps or snow/ice conditions higher up.
Secondly, every pack is a compromise - we are all different and adapt differently to thru-hike challenges. Some people are happy with a zpacks Nero for a PCT thru-hike. I wouldn't be personally - but it's been a great pack for 5 day alpine hikes. And great to carry my snowshoes and crampons for overnighters in deep snow conditions in the Pyrenees.
Most people try a few packs before hitting the 'right one' and that may change again every few years - certainly does for me. Bit comfort when carrying 12kg after a resupply is a priority for me - so my compromise is to cut out all fluff "features" many pack makers seem to love so much but I wouldn't even look at a pack without side pockets and a large rear mesh one - but each to our own (currently an Atom+)
dovidola
Thru Hiker
What @tom said.
Or, to put it differently @tarptent :
If it's heavier than it need be to achieve its purpose, then it's not ultralight.
If it's no heavier than it absolutely has to be, then it's ultralight.
Different people's requirements vary, so one person's ultralight might not be another person's ultralight.
Thus it's somewhat subjective, and the waving of willies in making one's case is not compulsory - at least not in Britain.
Or, to put it differently @tarptent :
If it's heavier than it need be to achieve its purpose, then it's not ultralight.
If it's no heavier than it absolutely has to be, then it's ultralight.
Different people's requirements vary, so one person's ultralight might not be another person's ultralight.
Thus it's somewhat subjective, and the waving of willies in making one's case is not compulsory - at least not in Britain.
Franky
Section Hiker
@tarptent - might be worthwhile to bear the purpose of UL in mind - which is not "the lightest kit" or such similar.
UL evolved to enable larger food carries while avoiding injuries and accidents caused by too heavy loads. A low base weight isn't a big issue for an overnighter or a long weekend but it matters hugely on a thru-hike when I need to load my pack up with approx 7 days food. And perhaps carry kit for colder temps or snow/ice conditions higher up.
Secondly, every pack is a compromise - we are all different and adapt differently to thru-hike challenges. Some people are happy with a zpacks Nero for a PCT thru-hike. I wouldn't be personally - but it's been a great pack for 5 day alpine hikes. And great to carry my snowshoes and crampons for overnighters in deep snow conditions in the Pyrenees.
Most people try a few packs before hitting the 'right one' and that may change again every few years - certainly does for me. Bit comfort when carrying 12kg after a resupply is a priority for me - so my compromise is to cut out all fluff "features" many pack makers seem to love so much but I wouldn't even look at a pack without side pockets and a large rear mesh one - but each to our own (currently an Atom+)
Absolutely what Tom says.
A good example is taking a lightweight ZPacks Arc Blast on The Great Himalayan Trail and trying to put 10 days food in it and then suffering and complaining. Wrong choice guys..(.They are on You tube...)
My Atom Pack Prospector 60 weighs more but carries 7 days food easily and in comfort. End of the day I still feel great...even at altitude
dovidola
Thru Hiker
Even so, much as I love my 1.1kg Nigor Zero-G (itself less than half the weight of the venerable Berghaus it replaced) which has served me well for 6 years, I'm looking at the Atom+ 40L as a possible replacement - if I can be confident comfort and practicability levels won't be too compromised for the c350g weight saving.
Alf Outdoors
F.K.A tarptent
But they are shipped from Italy...
Balagan
Thru Hiker
It is the country of manufacture that counts for the rules of origins which govern tax-free imports (as opposed to VAT). Hence the woes of UK companies that served as EU distribution hubs for Chinese-made products.
It's no problem bringing one back from a trip abroad though as the VAT and tax threshold is higher than mail order.
simplerandomwalk
Trail Blazer
Maybe this is old news but I noticed this pack in GramXpert "ready to ship" products: https://www.gramxpert.eu/product/28l-7l-backpack-piko/
