Odd Man
Thru Hiker
I can't really comment, but this came up when I was browsing ebay, maybe it will help?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tarptent...176152?hash=item289f3b9d98:g:DVoAAOSw-2xe-xhd
Dan Durston/Massdrop X-Mid
- Thread starter theoctagon
- Start date
I can't really comment, but this came up when I was browsing ebay, maybe it will help?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tarptent...176152?hash=item289f3b9d98:g:DVoAAOSw-2xe-xhd
Cheers Dan you make it look so easy in the video. I’m not sure what it is with me and mitten hooks!!
The loop and toggle on zpacks tents is easier for me tbh but if magnets worked that would be super easy.
Whiteburn
Thru Hiker
I put some hand stitched tacks to hold the 'D' ring more firmly & stop them rotating, then snipped off 2 - 3mm from the 'gates' of the mitten hooks to leave a small gap......a quick twist with one hand & they un-hook
I put some hand stitched tacks to hold the 'D' ring more firmly & stop them rotating, then snipped off 2 - 3mm from the 'gates' of the mitten hooks to leave a small gap......a quick twist with one hand & they un-hook
cheers sounds like a good idea. Thanks.
Mole
Thru Hiker
Having used the Mitten hooks on Tarptents for years, I find it's about twist technique. Practice. If this was a Tarptent thread, @Franco Darioli would link to his video of how easy it is.
I've just looked at a brand new Scarp 1. The new version has the Mitten hooks on the outer, and just small elastic loops on the inner. Now, that is really fiddly! Much worse than before. 1 of 2 bad moves (IMO) compared to the many improvements.
The Speedster magnets are not really up to holding a lot. Ok for a light inner door or as an extra to the main tieback.
I've just looked at a brand new Scarp 1. The new version has the Mitten hooks on the outer, and just small elastic loops on the inner. Now, that is really fiddly! Much worse than before. 1 of 2 bad moves (IMO) compared to the many improvements.
The Speedster magnets are not really up to holding a lot. Ok for a light inner door or as an extra to the main tieback.
Ironically I checked BPL after posting and found the Franco post also thanks.
Thanks for the heads up with the magnets too.
I agree with you Cathy.
I'd prefer the space of the 2nd porch to be within the inner - a possibility on the DCF version perhaps?
One of the reasons the x-mid wasn't a keeper for me is that despite all the reviews I found the porches cramped.
An a-framed duomid gives me a lot more covered porch area for being messy / sorting out my gear.
I'd prefer the space of the 2nd porch to be within the inner - a possibility on the DCF version perhaps?
One of the reasons the x-mid wasn't a keeper for me is that despite all the reviews I found the porches cramped.
An a-framed duomid gives me a lot more covered porch area for being messy / sorting out my gear.
oyvindhellenes
Day Walker
Interesting idea to have a singel porch with one trekking pole extended inside the inner, but I don’t think it’s a good design choice for several reasons. It complicates the setup, especially if you are carrying the inner separatly. It would require more consideration to which direction to pitch the tent. It would compromise the inner floor by making it more prone to abbrasion. It would add weight and accomodate less storage for wet gear. And finally, for someone like me who have perfected the art of taking a leak inside the tent, having only one porch would be a bummer.
In general I can understand the desire of lightweight hikers to have just what you need and nothing else in a tent, but when it comes at the expense of simplicity I personally value the latter more. I would however not be against the idea of making the inner a tad bit wider by requiring a slight angling of the trekking poles.
In general I can understand the desire of lightweight hikers to have just what you need and nothing else in a tent, but when it comes at the expense of simplicity I personally value the latter more. I would however not be against the idea of making the inner a tad bit wider by requiring a slight angling of the trekking poles.
oreocereus
Thru Hiker
The discussion of “excessive” vestibule space reminds me why the classic a-frame is such an efficient design - if you don’t despise front entry tents (many do, I never found it a real issue in practice). I owned a YMG cirriform (only gone as a bus service lost my bag), which adds an extra panel to make up for the sometimes small inner of most a-frames. It was big enough to store my bag in and cook in. Major downside is the long length of body-length panel fabric requires more staking, so you generally need more stakes. The cirriform was a minimum of 7, but more realistic 9.
cathyjc
Thru Hiker
I prefer an inner just big enough to sleep and not feel too cramped, and a single decent sized porch for cooking/hanging out in (wet/windy weather).
That's not possible with The X-mid - but a slightly bigger inner (angle one pole) and one porch a bit smaller would be an OK compromise.
dandurston
Section Hiker
Are you saying that you found there wasn't enough vestibule/porch area in the X-Mid? The X-Mid has a nearly identical amount of vestibule area as a DuoMid with a solo inner, since they have a similar base area. In the X-Mid it's split into two vestibules instead of one larger one, but overall it should be lend itself better to cooking etc because the dual pole design gives steeper walls over the vestibules, so they have a lot more volume.
Robert P
Thru Hiker
I agree the steep walls in the vestibules are great for cooking; makes a big difference versus some shelters. Personally I don't need the second vestibule but sometimes do use it to store some of my equipment; it is a logical consequence of the design and one that I am happy with. A slightly wider inner with some minor angling of trekking poles would be interesting
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
From IG:
Updates for the next batch of the X-Mid 1P:
1) The 1P now uses the same corner guyouts as the 2P. While they look unassuming, this guyout design is based on first principles (from rock climbing) to automatically equalize the load down the two seams of the tent. Each piece of grosgrain wraps under and up the opposite seam, to cradle the tensioner in an X which can slide slightly to self-equalize the load. This makes it stronger and also better pitching when the stake isn’t quite square to the tent. The X-Mid is likely the first tent to use this superior design.
2) We’ve also switched to thicker 2.5mm cord at the 4 corners that holds extremely well in these tensioners (stronger than almost every other UL tent). Has about twice the holding power versus the typical UL tent setup of 2.5mm cord in LineLoc3s.
The updated X-Mid 1P is on pre-sale now at Drop (link in bio) for shipment in 2 weeks.
Updates for the next batch of the X-Mid 1P:
1) The 1P now uses the same corner guyouts as the 2P. While they look unassuming, this guyout design is based on first principles (from rock climbing) to automatically equalize the load down the two seams of the tent. Each piece of grosgrain wraps under and up the opposite seam, to cradle the tensioner in an X which can slide slightly to self-equalize the load. This makes it stronger and also better pitching when the stake isn’t quite square to the tent. The X-Mid is likely the first tent to use this superior design.
2) We’ve also switched to thicker 2.5mm cord at the 4 corners that holds extremely well in these tensioners (stronger than almost every other UL tent). Has about twice the holding power versus the typical UL tent setup of 2.5mm cord in LineLoc3s.
The updated X-Mid 1P is on pre-sale now at Drop (link in bio) for shipment in 2 weeks.
Yes Dan.
The total volume outside the inner is the same, but i find it much more useable in one piece than two.
Personal preference for sure but for me, the two smaller porches didn't work as well.
I prefer not to be in the inner when I'm not sleeping and the porches are not big enough for that in an x-mid.
Don't lose any sleep over it. It's great value and most people love the design, but it wasn't for me.
dandurston
Section Hiker
My new 10mm Woojin tensioners arrived (aka LineLoc Lite's) so I did some further testing tonight. As you may recall, for the next batches of the X-Mid that are arriving in about 2 weeks, the new setup is 10mm LineLoc Lite's + 2.5mm cord. As these results show, this is the ultimate setup. It's better than LL3 with even 3mm cord, as I will explain.
Breaking Strength (by adding knot in cord)
LineLoc3: 35 kg
LineLoc Lite (15mm): 48 kg
LineLoc Lite (10mm): 61 kg
Holding Power (on 2.5mm Accessory Cord)
LineLoc3: 19 kg
LineLoc Lite (15mm): 22 kg
LineLoc Lite (10mm): 34 kg
Conclusion: In the same 15mm size the LLL holds a bit better than the LL3's and has a higher break strength, so it's a better tensioner. But the 10mm LLL is the star of the show with 34 kg holding power. That's nearly 2x an LL3 with 2.5mm. Even if you could get an LL3 that high via thicker cord (e.g. 3mm) you'd be right at the breaking strength of the tensioner (35kg), so it's not a good idea. The ideal setup for an LL3 is probably 2.7-2.8mm cord with 25-30kg of holding power but that is still cutting it tight with the breaking limit of the tensioner, whereas the LLL 10mm holds stronger yet (34 kg) on lighter 2.5mm line, while being nowhere near it's 61 kg breaking strength. Stronger, lighter, more safety margin.
Breaking Strength (by adding knot in cord)
LineLoc3: 35 kg
LineLoc Lite (15mm): 48 kg
LineLoc Lite (10mm): 61 kg
Holding Power (on 2.5mm Accessory Cord)
LineLoc3: 19 kg
LineLoc Lite (15mm): 22 kg
LineLoc Lite (10mm): 34 kg
Conclusion: In the same 15mm size the LLL holds a bit better than the LL3's and has a higher break strength, so it's a better tensioner. But the 10mm LLL is the star of the show with 34 kg holding power. That's nearly 2x an LL3 with 2.5mm. Even if you could get an LL3 that high via thicker cord (e.g. 3mm) you'd be right at the breaking strength of the tensioner (35kg), so it's not a good idea. The ideal setup for an LL3 is probably 2.7-2.8mm cord with 25-30kg of holding power but that is still cutting it tight with the breaking limit of the tensioner, whereas the LLL 10mm holds stronger yet (34 kg) on lighter 2.5mm line, while being nowhere near it's 61 kg breaking strength. Stronger, lighter, more safety margin.
oreocereus
Thru Hiker
That’s great dan.
With the whirlwind of info about all the different lineloc options, can you clarify the different stock set ups of past iterations of the x-mid?
did they all come with 10mm LLL or has that changed over different versions?
With the whirlwind of info about all the different lineloc options, can you clarify the different stock set ups of past iterations of the x-mid?
did they all come with 10mm LLL or has that changed over different versions?
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
@dandurston is the only high volume UL 'company' who applies Agile methodology on its design & manufacturing process. As a ex- IT Programme Manager, I find that quite impressive.
dandurston
Section Hiker
The Woojin "string tensionlock" can be seen on the Woojin site here, and then Dutchware (a retailer) has named them LineLoc Lite's, which you can buy individually in 10mm and 15mm size from them here. Not sure if someone in the UK sells these individually. If they do, it's probably not under the LLL name.
Early 2019 to Jan 2020: LineLoc3 with 2.5mm cord
Jan 2020 to Sept 2020: LineLoc Lite 10mm with 1.5mm cord
Oct 2020 - present: LineLoc Lite 10mm with 2.5mm cord
X-Mid 2P
Mar 2020 to Oct 2020: LineLoc Lite 10mm with 1.5mm cord
Nov 2020 - present: LineLoc Lite 10mm with 2.5mm cord
X-Mid 1P
Early 2019 to Jan 2020: LineLoc3 with 2.5mm cord
Jan 2020 to Sept 2020: LineLoc Lite 10mm with 1.5mm cord
Oct 2020 - present: LineLoc Lite 10mm with 2.5mm cord
X-Mid 2P
Mar 2020 to Oct 2020: LineLoc Lite 10mm with 1.5mm cord
Nov 2020 - present: LineLoc Lite 10mm with 2.5mm cord
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Odd Man
Thru Hiker
You're dropping so much knowledge, that you should have a DurstonWiki on your website, so that anyone can benefit it.
Robert P
Thru Hiker
I've also used the Speedster magnets on inner doors, but doubt they'd hold an outer reliably