Knife carriers

gixer

Thru Hiker
I don't see it as pointless.
The point being that most knife crime is perped by young stupid men. So we shouldn't be making easy for said young chaps to buy wildly inappropriate knives online without age checks.

Don't see how getting attacked by a "wildly inappropriate" knife is any worse than being attacked by a kitchen knife, hammer, fence post or stolen car.

Crims are always going to be able to find devices to hurt others with, most the neds i've come across would take it as an offense to actually buy something, never mind be out of jail long enough to have a credit card.
In my experience they'll steal from their parents or break into shops, homes

Even IF the government completely ban sales of knives (not possible) these crins will move onto screwdrivers, hammers, or sharpened bits of rebar.

There is a very simple case study for the correlation between stabbings and knife restrictions, you just need to look to our high security jails as an example, every even slightly sharp object is strictly controlled, but folks STILL find a way of harming each other.

All seems to be daily mail type sensationalist journalism to me
We're all statistically more likely to die from cancer or heart disease, or get injured as a result of vast alcohol consumption, not really headline material though, so knifes are the new "bad guy"

I know and have known twonks like these most of my life, i can assure you restricting knifes will do absolutely zero, zilch, nadda, nothing to deter them.
 

gixer

Thru Hiker
Interesting, just found this page
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...hapter2homicide#offences-recorded-as-homicide

Seems homicides are down to the lowest they've been since the early 70's

Peak was in 2003, but Harold Shipman's murders took that year to a high.
Maybe we should ban GP's as well :whistling: :wacky:

36% of homicides were committed with sharp objects, 18% "kicking or hitting without a weapon"

Even more frightening is that even though the gun laws in the UK have been tightened dramatically still 21 were killed by shooting.

44% of women murdered were killed by their partners/ex-partners :eek:
32% of men were killed by friends or acquaintances


56% were killed in a house or a dwelling
19% occurred in a street, footpath or alleyway
6% in a open outdoor area


Facts seem pretty clear to me
You're more likely to die of heart disease or cancer
IF you're going to get murdered chances are it'll be in a house (presumably with a kitchen full of large knives) and more than likely by a spouse or ex spouse

I stand by my statement "Seems stupid and pointless (no pun intended)"
 

gixer

Thru Hiker
Just over 500 murders in 2015
186 knife related

As a comparison there were just under 9000 alcohol related deaths in the same year

You'd think the twonks in power would do something more useful with their time and energy like preventing binge drinking and drunk driving (240 killed by drunk drivers in 2014).

If i was sceptical i might think it was something to do with the taxes and funding they get from alcohol companies :whistling:

Makes me sad that we're living in a age of such potential with regards media and technology, but all the media do is use slight of hand to stop us looking at the real admittedly less dramatic problems in society.

Again the cynic in me might think it has something to do with the millions of quid alcohol companies spend on advertising in said media :whistling:


All that and i didn't mention politics once, ohhhh no wait :p
 

Gadget

Thru Hiker
I stand by my statement "Seems stupid and pointless"
But the arguments you raise are unfocused, nebulous and ,might I say, without a honed edge.
They are in the same ballpark as those used by the NRA (sorry if you find that insulting, I can understand that, I expect you have considerably more brain cells than the NRA... combined!),
namely - this won't stop bad people doing bad things, only us, innocent, god-fearing, folk will suffer.
May I reference Jefferies vs US Gun Lobby (2015) m'lud?.... (@3:02s)

The proposed legislation going through lobbies for consultation has a point, it is not a panacea for all violent crime, it aims at one point, to close one loophole, the one that enabled the underage to buy online, knives that they could not, if they were to do so face to face. The point that you raise that they can also do this by buying from abroad, also highlights the point, and should also be addressed. It may be possible to include that in this legislation, but that might need something separate.

Arguing - we cannot legislate against all ways of hurting people, so that's a good reason to not legislate against this anomaly = poor argument.
 

gixer

Thru Hiker
But the arguments you raise are unfocused, nebulous and ,might I say, without a honed edge.
They are in the same ballpark as those used by the NRA (sorry if you find that insulting, I can understand that, I expect you have considerably more brain cells than the NRA... combined!),
namely - this won't stop bad people doing bad things, only us, innocent, god-fearing, folk will suffer.
May I reference Jefferies vs US Gun Lobby (2015) m'lud?.... (@3:02s)

The proposed legislation going through lobbies for consultation has a point, it is not a panacea for all violent crime, it aims at one point, to close one loophole, the one that enabled the underage to buy online, knives that they could not, if they were to do so face to face. The point that you raise that they can also do this by buying from abroad, also highlights the point, and should also be addressed. It may be possible to include that in this legislation, but that might need something separate.

Arguing - we cannot legislate against all ways of hurting people, so that's a good reason to not legislate against this anomaly = poor argument.

Good vid, will check more of his stuff out later :thumbsup:

It's easy to jump on the USA gun bandwagon as an example, problem is though
1/ We're not in America
2/ We're not talking about guns

There is absolutely no doubt that guns in the USA cause many many deaths, from both murder and suicide.
No matter what the NRA say it's a problem

It's not 100% a gun problem though, other countries have similar quantities of guns (per person) but don't have anywhere near the level of violence associated with them.

So it's first an American sociatorial problem, second a gun problem.


Thing to think about is that unless we're experienced talented engineers and chemists with a decent amount of machining tools and equipment we can't make guns ourselves, even if we could making the ammunition would be a whole different level.

We have knifes in EVERY single home and restaurant in the country


We can control and outlaw guns, it's happened and to an extent it has worked in the UK

We cannot outlaw knives, they're a tool we all use daily if not several times a day from a very young age.


We can make buying on-line difficult, we can make buying from a store difficult, but all anyone needs to do is walk into a restaurant or kitchen and they have immediate access to a decent quantity and variety of knives.


It's feasible and reasonable to expect say all handguns to be banned for civilian use in the UK, it's been done and although it took some time to filter through it's worked in preventing many gun crimes.


It's simply not feasible, reasonable or logical to outlaw knives
We can outlaw say zombie knives, but still people will need larger knives like machetes for work, butchers still need cleavers.


Even IF we found a way of licensing all larger knives, it's really really easy to sharpen a piece of steel.
1 hour on a grinding wheel with a leaf spring could have something resembling a machete

This is not the case with guns


Besides statistically it's not a problem.
Drunk driving and binge drinking are causing dramatically more deaths and injuries every year than every knife crime combined.
 

Gadget

Thru Hiker
So, looking at that, your problem is not with the loophole, but with the whole knitted bobblehat!
If that is the case, perhaps you should not direct your ire at the loophole legislation, but at the whole selling knives to the underage laws, lobby to get them all repealed.

(I bet you don't like speed cameras either! :p )
 

gixer

Thru Hiker
So, looking at that, your problem is not with the loophole, but with the whole knitted bobblehat!
If that is the case, perhaps you should not direct your ire at the loophole legislation, but at the whole selling knives to the underage laws, lobby to get them all repealed.

(I bet you don't like speed cameras either! :p )

I'm for control, i'm happy flick knives are banned for example

I do think the non-locking thing is pointless, but i'd happily vote for a legitimate reason needed to carry anything over 3"

Here in Greece the law doesn't care if a knife is locking or non-locking, you can carry a 3" lock knife legally.
We have hardly any knife crime here.


For me personally i'm all for fixing the problem.
The problem is that kids for some reason want to go out and stab each other.

It's THIS that needs time, effort and strategy to address.
It's not easy as it's a multifaceted problem that is more of a social problem than a legal problem.
So politicians won't address it as it will take over 4 years to fix.
Better to bring in stupid absolutely pointless laws and then point the finger at their successor when it's obvious the problem has not been fixed.

I'm not ragging on any particular party here, they're ALL the same.
We need someone with a vision and the courage enough to implement it even though it's likely they won't see results in their term, or even life time.


Many on here have lived or have been brought up in rough areas, many know of know of the types of nod that carry out these types of offences.
Knowing these nods it seems obvious to me this law and any other control, restriction (apart from the 3" law) is a waste of time, effort, resources and is absolutely pointless.

Knives are NOT the problem, they're a tool without any emotion.
Knife laws in many many countries are a LOT more ope, they're not seeing the violence we have.

The problem is the people that are committing this violence.
Take away their knives and they'll find a different way, it's simply not addressing the actual problem.
 

gixer

Thru Hiker
(I bet you don't like speed cameras either! :p )

That's a good example

The government bought in that stupid "speed kills" policy and spent millions advertising

Again it didn't address the problem, it was just something that meant they could step back, stroke their ego's and pat themselves on the back.

Speed doesn't kill, if it did, police, fire engine drivers, ambulance drivers, race car drivers, Germans, Italians and Greeks would be extinct by now :D

Bad driving kills

Of course inappropriate speed does kill
Anyone that drives past a school at kicking out time at 30mph needs kneecapping.
If it's a wide open road with good visibility, it's not dangerous in some scenarios to drive past the same school at say 03:00 at 40mph

Speed cameras have bought speeds down in some areas, but there is absolutely zero evidence to support any claim they've made these roads safer.

The epidemic of speed cameras happened to coincide with cars becoming safer.
ABS, traction control, pedestrian impact regulations on cars, crumple zones, airbags are some examples.

So at first glance the statistics seem to suggest the country is a safer place because of speed cameras, the reality is the numbers are pointless due to other safety factors being implemented at the same time.


If you look at the standard of driving i think it's obvious this has dropped dramatically.
I know when i return to the UK i notice it straight away.

Because people have had "speed kills" rammed down their throat they seem to think if they drive slow they're safe.
Fact is they're driving under the speed limit BUT they've bored and just not concentrating.

I've watched mates drive and they're spending nearly as much time looking at their speedo than they are the road.
Even when they are it's like a 1000 yard stare like you'd see in the walking dead.

Blakey used to be a character that was put in on the buses for comical effect, Blakey's are now running local and national governments, to the detriment of people taking responsibility for their own actions.
 

Gadget

Thru Hiker
this law and any other control, restriction (apart from the 3" law) is a waste of time, effort, resources and is absolutely pointless.
So, the sale of all knives to the under eighteens should be de-restricted?
(despite the frequency of knife carrying peaking in the 13 - 18 age group)
 

Gadget

Thru Hiker
I won't make a reply to the speeding post, I would rather keep this thread on topic.
But if you would like to make a separate thread about it, then I'd be on it.
 

Shewie

Chief Slackpacker
Staff member
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I won't make a reply to the speeding post, I would rather keep this thread on topic.
But if you would like to make a separate thread about it, then I'd be on it.


But I will cos I'm already a known thread drifter.. Nothing much to lose..

I'm sure you Gadget have seen, and had to deal with plenty of the horrendous. consequences of folks thinking they are 'above average drivers' ..

Apparently we all think we are...


Suffice to say statistics show that I have a 45% chance of being killed by a car doing 48mph, 5% by one doing 30 mph...

However skilful that driver thinks they are...

Human reaction times have not improved.
Neither have the laws of physics or biology when it comes to heavy metal object impacting soft mortal flesh..

Speed does kill Gixer... It kills lots.
 

gixer

Thru Hiker
Did read through each post Shewie, might be biased but i thought they were more social observations than political, so i pressed "post reply"

The bits that were about politicians i thought was general.

I do try to stick between the lines, honest.


Suffice to say statistics show that I have a 45% chance of being killed by a car doing 48mph, 5% by one doing 30 mph...

However skilful that driver thinks they are...

Pretty duff statistics
Sooooooooooooo many other factors are crucial that using speed alone to quantify that argument is pointless.

A 4x4 will cause more damage than say a hatchback, a truck/bus is even worse.
The age of the victim makes a massive difference.

Look at the recent cases of those poor buggers that were killed by people on pushbikes, unlikely the riders were going 48mph, but because the victims were old, it made matters worse.

T'other thing to think about is, a good driver will judge the threat to others and drive accordingly.
Often that will mean driving slower than the speed limit at certain times, in certain areas or in certain weather conditions.

In some situations driving at the speed limit is reckless
A good driver will judge that.


Likewise driving up the motorway at 03:00 on a clear night going over 70mpg (although illegal) poses no higher risk to other road users..



Human reaction times have not improved.
Neither have the laws of physics or biology when it comes to heavy metal object impacting soft mortal flesh..

But you're missing a massive part of the equation, cars now stop quicker, have wider grippier tyres, have ABS, stability control, collision avoidance, crumple zones, pedestrian crumple zones etc etc etc

If you were to drive a car from say 1990 and try and emergency stop, compared to a modern car there is absolutely no comparison.

Do you drive?

Speed does kill Gixer... It kills lots.

You're missing the important factor though, the object is NOT to hit anyone or anything.
IF you don't hit anyone or anything then your speed (as long as legal) is irrelevant.

IF we can train drivers to have a higher attention and take more care when driving then the amount of impacts to everyone else will be dramatically less.

Speed is a factor in deaths BECAUSE people are driving badly
 

Enzo

Thru Hiker
I heard on the radio a couple of days ago that violent crime has gone up dramatically last few years. Perhaps 'better' reporting as a consequence of the cuts to police numbers/pensions is part of it but some hard figures like murders seem hard to manipulate. Pretty sure any new laws are focused on young gang members in inner city's. No witness no crime and I don't remember last time I saw a copper in the hills.
 
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