New threads thread

[Nigelp]

So what does that mean in really simple terms? Why does it matter if your muscles move more - how much energy and why does it matter?
I’m sure it’s all good stuff but in the grand scheme of things probably not as important to a leisure backpacker.

 

[Roo]

Your connective tissue can act like a rubber band storing and releasing energy. When you walk or run at steady pace, this is what happens. When stepping down, your calcaneus moves laterally and arch moves down stretching the tissue while your other leg & body rotates. This causes torque stored in your body, like a wrung sponge. When you do the same movement on the other leg, this is then release and vice versa. Efficient runners and walkers can use this kinetic energy up to 70% for movement, while the rest 30% comes from muscle initiating the movement. If you restrict this movement, the ratio moves from kinetic energy to muscle energy, making your muscles move more. The bottom of the feet won't descend and raise, and the ankle doesn't move as much, which means the load is on your knees and hips and movement is loading more those muscles. You're not easily 'rolling' forward, you're lifting your legs to make the movement. The endurance movement becomes more of a strength movement. This is why professional runners use light shoes allowing foot & ankle movement, even on trail where walkers use boots.

Interesting! If part of the kinetic energy storage is in torso twist, I wonder if that means that a pack without a hip-belt is more energy-efficient since it doesn't restrict movement as much?

 

[Odd Man]

So what does that mean in really simple terms? Why does it matter if your muscles move more - how much energy and why does it matter?
I’m sure it’s all good stuff but in the grand scheme of things probably not as important to a leisure backpacker.

It's like driving a car and dragging a large rock behind. You can do it, but it takes its toll. It takes more energy and less mobility in your muscles & joints makes them more prone to injuries. If you ankles don't move, then your knees do more of the work sometimes with the wrong movement pattern causing knee and hip issues. How many backpackers/walkers do you know who complain about 'dodgy knees' when they hit 40? That's the thing. If longevity of the backpacking activity is a concern, then it's important.

 

[Odd Man]

Interesting! If part of the kinetic energy storage is in torso twist, I wonder if that means that a pack without a hip-belt is more energy-efficient since it doesn't restrict movement as much?

I'd say yes. Here's a photo of one of the kinetic chains of the body used for walking/running. It extends to store energy (like a rubber band) and then releases it.



This is also why finding your own rhythm, you can walk easier and longer than often trying to walk in a group. Also walking in a group, you keep losing the rhythm, which makes movement less efficient. However, there's the mental aspect of company which might compensate. Most of this is just my speculation based on my studies.

 

[Roo]

Fascinating! Cheers for the insight! One the foot side of things, then, is the corresponding conclusion that barefoot-style shoes are best and arch support is bad because it blocks the "spring" (arch)?

 

[Nigelp]

It's like driving a car and dragging a large rock behind. You can do it, but it takes its toll. It takes more energy and less mobility in your muscles & joints makes them more prone to injuries. If you ankles don't move, then your knees do more of the work sometimes with the wrong movement pattern causing knee and hip issues. How many backpackers/walkers do you know who complain about 'dodgy knees' when they hit 40? That's the thing. If longevity of the backpacking activity is a concern, then it's important.

So runners don’t get any knees issues at all?

 

[Odd Man]

Fascinating! Cheers for the insight! One the foot side of things, then, is the corresponding conclusion that barefoot-style shoes are best and arch support is bad because it blocks the "spring" (arch)?

Barefoot style shoes let the feet and legs work naturally. However, most people don't wear barefoot shoes so switching to them might cause more issues (plantar fasciitis is often overstretching of the tissue on the bottom of the feet due to increased volume and weakness of muscles), so transition should be slow and controlled involving low mileage and mobility work. Sometimes some support is needed due to structural issues. Just be careful and listen to your body. Here's a good book to read about it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Born-Walk-...483526&sprefix=james+earls+bor,aps,160&sr=8-1

 

[Odd Man]

So runners don’t get any knees issues at all?

Of course they do, but most runner use cushioned shoes with raised heels which changes the biomechanics. They also tend to do high volumes on hard surfaces. If you do lot of running and can't squat down and sit there, you'll probably will have some kind of issues in the long run.

 

[Roo]

Barefoot style shoes let the feet and legs work naturally. However, most people don't wear barefoot shoes so switching to them might cause more issues (plantar fasciitis is often overstretching of the tissue on the bottom of the feet due to increased volume and weakness of muscles), so transition should be slow and controlled involving low mileage and mobility work. Sometimes some support is needed due to structural issues. Just be careful and listen to your body. Here's a good book to read about it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Born-Walk-Myofascial-Efficiency-Movement/dp/1913088103/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3BEWMMLBKNJPO&dchild=1&keywords=born to walk james earls&qid=1617483526&sprefix=james earls bor,aps,160&sr=8-1

Thanks, I'll take a look. Reason I asked was that I've been considering going the other way, to more arch support, because I've found that on high-mileage days my feet get tired, my arches collapse, everything ends up misaligned and worst case scenario, which has happened a couple of times, I end up with knees so sore I can't keep walking. Exercises the physio gave me didn't make any noticeable difference. But maybe I should give it another shot. I actually have an appointment booked with a different person now so maybe they can help.

 

[Odd Man]

Thanks, I'll take a look. Reason I asked was that I've been considering going the other way, to more arch support, because I've found that on high-mileage days my feet get tired, my arches collapse, everything ends up misaligned and worst case scenario, which has happened a couple of times, I end up with knees so sore I can't keep walking. Exercises the physio gave me didn't make any noticeable difference. But maybe I should give it another shot. I actually have an appointment booked with a different person now so maybe they can help.

Do you laterally rotated feet, commonly known as duck feet?

Many people have that and it causes lots of foot and knee pain, because the arch is already in pronation when it should be neutral.

It does take a long time to train your small foot muscles when switching to minimalist shoes, but it will make your gait lighter and automatically more mindful where you set your foot.

What exercises did your physio give to you?

 

[Roo]

Do you laterally rotated feet, commonly known as duck feet?

Many people have that and it causes lots of foot and knee pain, because the arch is already in pronation when it should be neutral.

It does take a long time to train your small foot muscles when switching to minimalist shoes, but it will make your gait lighter and automatically more mindful where you set your foot.

What exercises did your physio give to you?

I don't think so...? I think I walk with my feet pretty straight in that dimension (although I've never really thought about it), and it's not something the physio mentioned. But my feet's default position is pronation unless I actively think about rolling them outwards. My arches just seem to prefer to be...flat.

Most of the exercises they gave me seemed to be to strengthen my leg muscles rather than the feet themselves. The exception being the "stand on one foot with your eyes closed while you're brushing your teeth" exercise, which I guess probably strengthens most stuff.
The others were lunges, doing squats by rolling my back down a pilates ball against the wall, lying on my front and pulling myself up into a saucer shape, and lying on my back with my feet on the floor, lifting my bum off the ground and then straightening one leg at a time.

Here's the (very professional) piece of paper I was given (wrong language, but there are pics at least):


Not sure I'd be able to manage full-on minimalist shoes. The soles of my feet get sore as it is when I've been on the go all day, so I think the complete lack of cushioning would be a problem.

 

[Odd Man]

I don't think so...? I think I walk with my feet pretty straight in that dimension (although I've never really thought about it), and it's not something the physio mentioned. But my feet's default position is pronation unless I actively think about rolling them outwards. My arches just seem to prefer to be...flat.

Most of the exercises they gave me seemed to be to strengthen my leg muscles rather than the feet themselves. The exception being the "stand on one foot with your eyes closed while you're brushing your teeth" exercise, which I guess probably strengthens most stuff.
The others were lunges, doing squats by rolling my back down a pilates ball against the wall, lying on my front and pulling myself up into a saucer shape, and lying on my back with my feet on the floor, lifting my bum off the ground and then straightening one leg at a time.

Here's the (very professional) piece of paper I was given (wrong language, but there are pics at least):
View attachment 30799

Not sure I'd be able to manage full-on minimalist shoes. The soles of my feet get sore as it is when I've been on the go all day, so I think the complete lack of cushioning would be a problem.

Varför är detta på Svenska?

Looks to me that those exercises are to strengthen the lower body, but they don't really address the movement, posture and the gait cycle. If you already have non-optimal movement and postural issues, those exercises only lock in the issues, not necessarily improve the situation. Unfortunately some physios are very muscle oriented and only focus on those. Some physios have much more holistic approach.

If you were to come to me, this is how I'd proceed.

Try to understand when and where the issue manifests itself, ie your story.
Analyse your posture and movement.
Posture: feet, arches, rotations, anterior/posterior balance of the body, lateral balance, rotations etc.
Identify the areas need addressing and work them to improve the posture and movement.
Give home mobility exercises to set and keep improving the mobility.
Suggest strengthening exercises once the posture and movement have improved to built support for the newly found posture/movement.

 

[Roo]

Varför är detta på Svenska?

Looks to me that those exercises are to strengthen the lower body, but they don't really address the movement, posture and the gait cycle. If you already have non-optimal movement and postural issues, those exercises only lock in the issues, not necessarily improve the situation. Unfortunately some physios are very muscle oriented and only focus on those. Some physios have much more holistic approach.

If you were to come to me, this is how I'd proceed.

Try to understand when and where the issue manifests itself, ie your story.
Analyse your posture and movement.
Posture: feet, arches, rotations, anterior/posterior balance of the body, lateral balance, rotations etc.
Identify the areas need addressing and work them to improve the posture and movement.
Give home mobility exercises to set and keep improving the mobility.
Suggest strengthening exercises once the posture and movement have improved to built support for the newly found posture/movement.

Well, on that basis, I wish you lived in Gothenburg!
The new person I'm going to see specialises in posture though, and seems to take a much more holistic approach in general, so sounds like that might have more potential to be helpful. If not, I might have to send you a video of me walking!

PS- Nice Swedish skills!

 

[Odd Man]

Well, on that basis, I wish you lived in Gothenburg!
The new person I'm going to see specialises in posture though, and seems to take a much more holistic approach in general, so sounds like that might have more potential to be helpful. If not, I might have to send you a video of me walking!

PS- Nice Swedish skills!

Let me know how you get on with this new person? If you still feel that you're not getting the help you need, I can try to find someone local to you who does what I do.

PS. Tackar, men jag är Finsk efter alt, men min Svenska är skit...

 

[Roo]

Let me know how you get on with this new person? If you still feel that you're not getting the help you need, I can try to find someone local to you who does what I do.

PS. Tackar, men jag är Finsk efter alt, men min Svenska är skit...

Thanks, will do!
Och jag lovar, din svenska är betydligt bättre än min finska! You guys take language-Russian-dolls to the next level. So many letters!

 

[Odd Man]

Available 27/4

 

[Build-a-Bear]

But can you count on it 24/7?

 

[Odd Man]

But can you count on it 24/7?

Not sure, but I'd rather use a pen and paper or a calculator.

Here's a BPL review (req membership).

https://backpackinglight.com/enlightened-equipment-torrid-apex-pullover-review/

 

[Odd Man]

 

[Hd8ekownio24ugh5]

.

 

[Shewie]

I'm always suspicious when the photos seem to be deliberately avoiding letting you get a good view from the front with the the hood up.
And "Engineered to be extremely lightweight" but no weight specified.

210g for a medium

I wasn't going to pay full price for one but £135 wasn't a bad deal

Hood has cinches at the sides and a volume reducer in the back

The black version is a dark grey

 

[Odd Man]

Balaclava Launch Sale

LoftTek Hybrid Balaclava Launch Sale- a warmer, more reliable, & more comfortable puffy balaclava on sale for a limited time only!

outdoorvitals.com

 

[Gordon Meiklejohn]

Just got the exchanged Velez jacket. Nice. Good fit now. There are poppers on the zip flap now (a change from the original I think), making it more like some of the older style jackets so you can vent without having the front gaping. It is quite a lot heavier than advertised at 670g vs 605g.

I’ve noticed this with a few paramo garments. 5 sizes, average quoted weight is 440g yet the medium weighs 500g?

 

[Robin]

I’ve noticed this with a few paramo garments. 5 sizes, average quoted weight is 440g yet the medium weighs 500g?

It’s pretty irritating that companies are not accurate with weights. Oddly, Rab seem to quote heavier weights than items I’ve bought.

 

[turkeyphant]

It's bemusing where they get the numbers from? Even the cheapest scales won't be out by more than a gram or two.