Important re wild camping Peak District

EM-Chiseller

Thru Hiker
Petition has started to preserve our right to roam....
Please read...
Here's the bones of it....

The Conservative Party manifesto states its wish to make the act of trespass a criminal offence where police could seize property of people camping out in the long tradition of quiet and gentle wild camping. Don't make people criminals for making a wild camp, drinking coffee while watching the sun rise over the High Peak.

Link to petition
 

dovidola

Thru Hiker
This doesn't interfere with the existing Right to Roam, because if you are 'roaming' in accordance with that right (which doesn't include a right to camp), you're not a trespasser. If, as this petition seems to do, we object because of our nonexistent 'right to wild camp', we are liable to draw attention to the technically unlawful nature of our hobby! (the position in Scotland is different, as is Dartmoor).

For the record, this is what the Conservative Manifesto actually says:
"We will tackle unauthorised traveller camps. We will give the police new powers to arrest and seize the property and vehicles of trespassers who set up unauthorised encampments, in order to protect our communities. We will make intentional trespass a criminal offence, and we will also give councils greater powers within the planning system."

Largely empty electioneering hype, worded to appeal to a certain section of the electorate, and targeted at Travellers and (probably) Hunt Saboteurs. Trespass by Travellers for the purpose of residing on land with vehicles is already a criminal offence, and has been for a quarter of a century (Section 61, Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994). The most this proposal would do (in the unlikely event of it ever resulting in anything at all) is criminalise the act of residential trespass itself, rather than failure to depart when directed (as at present), and enhance existing police powers of confiscation. Prosecutions under the existing law are exceedingly rare because the aim is removal, not prosecution, of those engaged. That wouldn't change.

Here's a quote from the petition:
"We have homeless people in the High Peak who rely on tents in hidden places to survive, please don't add a criminal offence to their already difficult lives".
There may be a valid point here, but that's a slightly different scenario to the "quiet and gentle drinking of coffee while watching the sunrise over High Peak", or indeed to a D of E overnight tent village!

The reality is that our overworked and largely office-bound police service is not going to be out trudging over the fells looking for the occasional hiker's tent in the dark. As far as the activities of most on this forum are concerned, I would worry far, far more about the appointment of the first 1,000 Park Rangers in the Lake District, and where that is going to lead.
 

EM-Chiseller

Thru Hiker
And the rangers ask you to move... You decline for your own reasons... Tired, injured etc... They get arsey, you get arsey... They call the police... now your trespassing with intent (to illegally camp) and it all goes on from there....
 

Nigelp

Thru Hiker
Do you think the police are going to walk up a mountain to arrest someone for wild camping?

The law hasn’t been been made yet and will have to pass through several stages before it is. It will then need testing in court etc.
 

dovidola

Thru Hiker
And the rangers ask you to move... You decline for your own reasons... Tired, injured etc... They get arsey, you get arsey... They call the police... now your trespassing with intent (to illegally camp) and it all goes on from there....
Exactly!
 

Robin

Moderator
Staff member
More effective than a petition is writing to your MP. As @dovidola says, it appears to be directed at travellers and giving police and councils more power to move them on. We had an issue here with an illegal camp a few years ago in the middle of a residential area.
 

lakeshore

Trail Blazer
Not meant for wild camping, I think it is to control homeless folk living in tents under bridges and on highway verges.
 

Teepee

Thru Hiker
Whoever confiscates my food bag won't be doing it again in a hurry. :D

At least my tent already looks like I'm camping in an orange jump suit....
 

Enzo

Thru Hiker
Wasn't suggesting 'dealing with' landowners. Though my family are Neapolitans so.....
But setup after dark and be gone by dawn, no witness.
 

Fossil Bluff

Thru Hiker
Ties in with an article in the Times last week:

"As part of the Welsh national drive for a cleaner countryside, the Snowdonia National Park Authority have taken the unpresidented step of banning bright and colourful tents on the mountainside from 15th january 2020.

The unusual step was declared in 'The way forward - CleanerWales' 2020 business plan released today by SNPA. Branded by some as policing the unpoliceable, the measure has met a great deal of support from locals and visiting mountaineers alike who claim that the visual influence of countryside users if extremely important.


"We can all do our part in making the countryside a visually quiter place" said Dave Jones from Bethgelert "Its about time something like this was done to limit the visual impact on our fantastic and challenging mountains".

Plans to limit colourful tents will only apply to so called 'wild camping' out on the mountainside, normal 'paying' campsites may accept any colour of tent because the visual intrusion is contained in a small defined area.

Policing methods will include ranger patrols and a series of lectures at hostels to encourage peer group auditing with campers being encouraged to cut the guy lines and bend the tent pegs of red and yellow tents that they see pitched in areas without due authorisation.

 

Michael_x

Section Hiker
Ties in with an article in the Times last week:

Policing methods will include ranger patrols and a series of lectures at hostels to encourage peer group auditing with campers being encouraged to cut the guy lines and bend the tent pegs of red and yellow tents that they see pitched in areas without due authorisation.

Because, of course, the wild campers will be at the hostels to hear the lectutes, the underfunded rangers are well known to have plenty of time for extra tent patrols, and encouraging people to become vigilantes and commit criminal damage is a key policy of an alt right government pledged to be tough on Law and Order.

<Above is tongue in cheek, I am well aware the Welsh government is not alt right>

Yep, got to agree with @Nigelp. :)
 
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lentenrose

Ultralighter
Ties in with an article in the Times la.

Policing methods will include ranger patrols and a series of lectures at hostels to encourage peer group auditing with campers being encouraged to cut the guy lines and bend the tent pegs of red and yellow tents that they see pitched in areas without due authorisation.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------obviously there will be extra ranger and police patrols to deal will the violent confrontations between coloured tent dwellers and guy line cutters and tent peg benders
 

Dave V

Moderator
Staff member
Ties in with an article in the Times last week:

"As part of the Welsh national drive for a cleaner countryside, the Snowdonia National Park Authority have taken the unpresidented step of banning bright and colourful tents on the mountainside from 15th january 2020.

The unusual step was declared in 'The way forward - CleanerWales' 2020 business plan released today by SNPA. Branded by some as policing the unpoliceable, the measure has met a great deal of support from locals and visiting mountaineers alike who claim that the visual influence of countryside users if extremely important.


"We can all do our part in making the countryside a visually quiter place" said Dave Jones from Bethgelert "Its about time something like this was done to limit the visual impact on our fantastic and challenging mountains".

Plans to limit colourful tents will only apply to so called 'wild camping' out on the mountainside, normal 'paying' campsites may accept any colour of tent because the visual intrusion is contained in a small defined area.

Policing methods will include ranger patrols and a series of lectures at hostels to encourage peer group auditing with campers being encouraged to cut the guy lines and bend the tent pegs of red and yellow tents that they see pitched in areas without due authorisation.

I take it Mountain Rescue were not consulted on this then..

I refer to an article in TGO Mag last year or the year before where MR were quoted as saying bright coloured tents and or clothing help them massively when trying to locate people.

Subsequent articles in TGO, online and speaking to people in local groups also all advocate the carrying and use of bright shelters or bothy shelters to escape the elements in time of emergency or to shelter whilst having lunch ect.

I understand where they are coming from but it's not just wild campers they should be targeting if they are to target anyone. Other outdoor activities have just as much a visual impact and often are longer lasting.
 

Balagan

Thru Hiker
Meanwhile, our Northern correspondent Malcolm Legge-Poole reports that the Lake District National Park is slated to make colourful tents mandatory as part of a drive to make the Lake District more welcoming to minorities. This planned curtailing of the traditional right to wild camp next to a pub in drab coloured tents has grizzled veterans of the British trekking community up in arms over this outrage. Calls for the sacking of all the soft Southerners associated with this preposterous scheme have met with wild support on Twitter.
 
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Heltrekker

Section Hiker
Ties in with an article in the Times last week:

Policing methods will include ranger patrols and a series of lectures at hostels to encourage peer group auditing with campers being encouraged to cut the guy lines and bend the tent pegs of red and yellow tents that they see pitched in areas without due authorisation.

Nice to see the Times encouraging acts of Criminal Damage, which certainly will be pursued by the police
 
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