Baldy
Thru Hiker
Eds return to Newcastle......
Light, breathable waterproof?
- Thread starter Myles21
- Start date
Eds return to Newcastle......
Baldy
Thru Hiker
I've not tried the Howies jacket as I've already got enough windproofs to last a lifetime! However, I do have some other stuff from Howies and it's always been good quality. It looks good value and a very reasonable weight.
While waterproofs and windproofs do exhibit a varying degree of breathability, it's hardly controversial to suggest the a garment without a waterproof membrane will be more breathable (and durable) than one with a membrane.
That said, I've found that the latest versions of Montane windproofs to be less breathable than earlier iterations due to the shiny inner coating on the newer versions. On the other hand my Paramo, Rohan and Arteryx windproofs are much more breathable than my OMM Cypher smock (probably the most breathable waterproof I have) and Marmot Essence jacket. Allegedly Neoshell waterproofs are very air permeable, so they might double as a wind shell.
One of my friends has a ZPacks Challenger jacket. We went on a rainy backpacking trip. It rained so heavily that we bailed out to a cafe for lunch. Inside, taking off our waterproofs, he was noticeably damper in his Challenger jacket than I was in my Essence jacket. I was pretty dry, but he was decidedly damp! Perhaps he sweats more than me! I do think pit zips are a good idea and wish more jackets had them. As a compromise, the Essence has underarm vents.
Even if you are convinced that breathability is comparable, the durability issue favours taking a combination of a light windproof and waterproof over solely using a heavier waterproof IMO.
While waterproofs and windproofs do exhibit a varying degree of breathability, it's hardly controversial to suggest the a garment without a waterproof membrane will be more breathable (and durable) than one with a membrane.
That said, I've found that the latest versions of Montane windproofs to be less breathable than earlier iterations due to the shiny inner coating on the newer versions. On the other hand my Paramo, Rohan and Arteryx windproofs are much more breathable than my OMM Cypher smock (probably the most breathable waterproof I have) and Marmot Essence jacket. Allegedly Neoshell waterproofs are very air permeable, so they might double as a wind shell.
One of my friends has a ZPacks Challenger jacket. We went on a rainy backpacking trip. It rained so heavily that we bailed out to a cafe for lunch. Inside, taking off our waterproofs, he was noticeably damper in his Challenger jacket than I was in my Essence jacket. I was pretty dry, but he was decidedly damp! Perhaps he sweats more than me! I do think pit zips are a good idea and wish more jackets had them. As a compromise, the Essence has underarm vents.
Even if you are convinced that breathability is comparable, the durability issue favours taking a combination of a light windproof and waterproof over solely using a heavier waterproof IMO.
So...it's becoming clearer that a windshirt and a rain jacket are different beasts. So guys, if you were to pick a lightish-but-still-durable and breathable rain jacket, what would you go for? A new rain jacket is a must, even if it stays in my pack while I wear a windshirt/fleece etc. I feel for Scottish hillwalking I can't afford to leave a rain jacket behind. And my reading is telling me it wouldn't be sensible to rely on a windshirt as my sole rain layer. So if you could recommend a quality rain jacket...
The Marmot PreCip looks like a good option.
For the windshirt, the ones you have all been suggesting look great. Are there any that are a little more water resistant than others, or does that automatically mean less breathable?
Thanks for your help all...
The Marmot PreCip looks like a good option.
For the windshirt, the ones you have all been suggesting look great. Are there any that are a little more water resistant than others, or does that automatically mean less breathable?
Thanks for your help all...
Mole
Thru Hiker
personally, I wouldn't prioritise water resistance as a major factor when looking for a windproof. price, fit, breathability, weight and colour come first. I carry a waterproof for wet weather. most clothing dries quickly enough after a light shower stops. if not light, then waterproofs go on. Unless it's winter and wearing my cioch (paramoalike)
Good advice thanks. There seems to be a huge range in prices. My bank account likes the Howies (which I've seen for £35) but how breathable it is I don't know, so I don't know if it'd work as a windshirt. I've emailed them. I've had 'pac-a-mac' style things for travel in the past, and it's like wearing a bin-liner.
I agree. All you need from a windproof is a good DWR to make it showerproof. A waterproof is the layer you need you keep you dry(ish). I always carry a waterproof layer on multi day walks whatever the forecast.
WilliamC
Thru Hiker
Have they improved the quality of the Precip? See this thread, and many others on BPL.
All I can say is that the Marmot Essence which uses NanoPro Membrain is very good. Not as good as eVent, but close. On the TGO Challenge, I put on the Essence over a wet layer and within an hour I was bone dry. However, as I mentioned before, it's quite delicate so you need to take care of it.
Whiteburn
Thru Hiker
I've the older version of the Marmot PreCip jacket, found it pretty good, a bit weighty at ~370g (still a lot lighter than a lot of jackets), paid £50 for mine which I thought a bargain. The new version is more breathable.
In the summer I've been using the Montane Minimus Smock,~140g, still good after 2 TGO's, 10wks on the Pyrenees + a number of shorter trips. I don't expect it to last as long as a heavy 3 layer Goretex jacket but at £80 I'll not complain.
Like others I minimise wearing WP's by using a wind shirt, I my case a Montane Slipstream Smock, ~80g.
In the summer I've been using the Montane Minimus Smock,~140g, still good after 2 TGO's, 10wks on the Pyrenees + a number of shorter trips. I don't expect it to last as long as a heavy 3 layer Goretex jacket but at £80 I'll not complain.
Like others I minimise wearing WP's by using a wind shirt, I my case a Montane Slipstream Smock, ~80g.
gixer
Thru Hiker
Great post as usual Robin
I'll bow to your experience on which is the most breathable.
My point though is that if it's not raining, a waterproof jacket can be vented to be breathable enough
If something like a event WP jacket can't breath enough then maybe the conditions aren't really right for wearing a windproof (i.e, not cold enough)
I think the circumstances are a bit to varied to form a conclusion mate.
Even something as basic as wearing a thicker baselayer can make a massive difference to sweat levels.
Fitness level, bodyweight, weight carrying and many other things make a difference as well.
Only problem i've had with the Challenger jacket so far is the rain getting around my face and down onto my chest.
My first thoughts were maybe the zip had leaked, but my brother was wearing my Montane FF jacket and had the exact same wet patch.
Plus the inside of the pocket was dry and that uses the same zip.
Can't say as durability worries me mate.
If i get 4 years of good use out of a rain jacket i'd be happier with that than if i had 4 years of hardly any use out of it
The weight thing is a bit more tricky especially for you guys over there, would you go out on a long day walk without your WP jacket?
If so it can't be many hikes a year like that.
So in that case the weight of the windproof would be more as you'll be carrying it extra.
Might just be me but as long as i'm not cold i kinda like a bit of a breeze through my clothing, as long as i'm not wet then it's kinda refreshing.
But then i'm hiking down to around freezing with just a 260wt Merino baselayer most of the time, if the wind bites through that then i'll slip on a fleece pullover
On the bike though....................
gixer
Thru Hiker
gixer,
I think you are right.
it's probably just you.
I'm tearing up here mate, you trying to say i'm "special" 
craige
Thru Hiker
Only if the next day is forecast to be rain free too. Not many of those.
Not just you, once I've warmed up I'm happy just below freezing in a tshirt in moderate winds. Fleece goes on as soon as I stop and if it's windy then the rain jacket goes on on top.
Got a reply from Howies: the jacket is windproof but not breathable. Shame. And yes, not great reports on the PreCip either. So will continue to research your suggestions (inculuding ULOG). Reading around on BPL, many favour the Outdoor Research Helium 2, but it's very pricey and I seriously doubt it'd be able to contend with UK rain - seems like a bit of a windshirt/rain jacket hybrid. As for windshirts, lots of great reviews of the Patagonia Houdini, but again, not cheap. I read the recent rain jacket review over on OM - some nice jackets but I reckon most would be on the heavy side.
Please keep the suggestions coming!
Please keep the suggestions coming!
That's disappointing. It's not very clear from the text. Lucky you checked.
The best windproof I have is the Arcteryx Squamish Hoody. Expensive but good hood, adjustable cuffs and nice material. Good shower resistance as well. If you can wait, you often find them in a sale, especially after Christmas.
edh
Thru Hiker
Me too; excellent piece.
If you're set against the Precip, don't read this!!
Mine has just lost its waterproofing after 2 years of fairly constant use for cycling and working outside. At first it was excellent in the rain. I'm going to keep my old one for day to day cycling and get a new one for when it's actually raining.
Mine has just lost its waterproofing after 2 years of fairly constant use for cycling and working outside. At first it was excellent in the rain. I'm going to keep my old one for day to day cycling and get a new one for when it's actually raining.
I don't mind Paclite, if it's kept clean it keeps most rain out and breathes well for me, although I know a lot find it clammy. My main user is a Rab Demand eVent smock, 290 'ish grams I think for a large, packs really well and after nearly four years it''s still keeping the rain out. It's days are numbered though I think, the first place to wet out is the sleeve ends and I've noticed over time that it's creeping ever higher, the shoulders are also going that way now, the usual areas.
Not sure what I'll get next, I was considering the Minimus from Montane but the reviews are a bit mixed, I'll probably look at Rabs' lightweight offerings again (Spark) or maybe something from the running scene, Raidlight, Inov8 or OMM. It'll probably spend most of it's life in a pack but it's good to know it's going to keep me dry when needed.
As the others have said a separate windproof is much more useful, my pertex Montane Litespeed is capable of withstanding showers so it has to be raining pretty hard to make me reach for the full waterproof. It's around 170g for a large and packs to the size of a tennis ball, unless it's a rare warm day I usually set off with it on and I don't get clammy at all. Mine is around four years old so judging by Robins comment a replacement might not be as good now.
Lots of nice kit about at the moment, MH and Haglofs seem to have upped their game, it's a shame I don't really need anything right now
Not sure what I'll get next, I was considering the Minimus from Montane but the reviews are a bit mixed, I'll probably look at Rabs' lightweight offerings again (Spark) or maybe something from the running scene, Raidlight, Inov8 or OMM. It'll probably spend most of it's life in a pack but it's good to know it's going to keep me dry when needed.
As the others have said a separate windproof is much more useful, my pertex Montane Litespeed is capable of withstanding showers so it has to be raining pretty hard to make me reach for the full waterproof. It's around 170g for a large and packs to the size of a tennis ball, unless it's a rare warm day I usually set off with it on and I don't get clammy at all. Mine is around four years old so judging by Robins comment a replacement might not be as good now.
Lots of nice kit about at the moment, MH and Haglofs seem to have upped their game, it's a shame I don't really need anything right now