Basic advice for a bivy virgin

By which I mean I've never slept in a bivy, not that I've never slept with anyone in one. But that too.

I can't get out for a while so I'm doing some hypothetical hiking instead. I'm getting interested in the idea of a bivy and tarp, but it seems like a there's a lot of options and getting it wrong doesn't sound fun. I've been given some advice in different threads already, but just collating my queries here to simplify and hopefully help anyone else with similar questions. Please excuse anything truly imbecilic here, I'm totally inexperienced with bivvies hence the post.

Waterproof bivy:
• What do you do with pack, boots etc. if using as a standalone shelter? Might be a silly question, but I only ask because a friend once had his boots stolen by a fox when he left his tent door open overnight
• If adding a small tarp as extra shelter for cooking/gear storage, what size do people recommend?
• Any specific WPB bivy recommendations, ideally something light?
• I ordered a Kloke in the Alpkit sale but feels like it may be too small for me with my S2S Ether Light XT Insulated mat inside (the mat is pretty damn thick but it's the only one I've really found comfortable as a side sleeper). I get that bivvying requires compromise so assuming I'd need a thinner mat, bigger bivy, both, or just stop being a wuss.
• From what I've read, it seems nigh on impossible to avoid condensation, but any tips to mitigate it?

DWR/breathable bivy + tarp:
• Any specific recommendations? I've seen Borah Ultralight and MLD Superlight mentioned here a lot, also Katabatic a few times.
• What size tarp do people recommend for solo use?
• Flat tarp, tapered or anything else?
• Is DWR bivy + tarp generally favoured over a WPB bivy? Perhaps a better starting point in some ways as it's more similar to a tent, but presumably trickier in terms of pitching and site selection?

Any help on these points or other advice would be greatly appreciated, cheers.

Maybe try and plan a night where you know the weather will be good and simply sleep out in the sleeping bag on its own to see if you like it first. You might absolutely hate it and then you've saved some dosh. It's definitely marmite. Or you could buy a British army goretex bivy to try out first as they cost peanuts then go from there.

I think in general some kind of shelter combined with a water resistant (not wp) bivvy will always be preferable. In cold and dry (or warm and dry) regions i can see some appeal, but not moist British conditions. Maybe check out the book "book of the bivy" for a little inspiration. I can't give much else than that. I used to bum about in a Hilleberg bivanorak a while back thinking it was the bees knees but glad that phase eventually passed. Couldn't imagine bivvying again.

Norrland said:

Maybe try and plan a night where you know the weather will be good and simply sleep out in the sleeping bag on its own to see if you like it first. You might absolutely hate it and then you've saved some dosh. It's definitely marmite. Or you could buy a British army goretex bivy to try out first as they cost peanuts then go from there.

I think in general some kind of shelter combined with a water resistant (not wp) bivvy will always be preferable. In cold and dry (or warm and dry) regions i can see some appeal, but not moist British conditions. Maybe check out the book "book of the bivy" for a little inspiration. I can't give much else than that. I used to bum about in a Hilleberg bivanorak a while back thinking it was the bees knees but glad that phase eventually passed. Couldn't imagine bivvying again.

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That’s a very good shout, thanks. A couple of other people recommended the army bags too as a relatively cheap tester. I’m not sure whether or not bivvying would be for me - enjoying tents at the moment so I’m mainly interested in bivies in terms of ability to pitch stealthily and in tighter spots. Interested in trying it when the weather’s a bit nicer (hail and rain down here at the moment).

A thought about tarps: I found the rab siltarp 1 too small for my needs (though other love it) and now use a bigger oex bush-pro tarp (285cm x 240cm). I find it easier to sit up and keep stuff dry.
As for bivies, I want enough space to put all my sleep gear in and some small bits. So far I prefer the alpkit hunka xl as it's simple to use, you can sit up/ move about a bit while still in it, and it seems breathable and relatively weatherproof. I also like my old goretex hooped bivy which is really dark inside when zipped up and breathes really well. No side zip (same as the hunka) but you can wriggle in and out with some practice, zips can be hard to locate and open when you need to get out in a hurry.
Some bivies are hard to get in/out of which is no fun when you need a pee.
As was said earlier, the army goretex bivies are pretty good, they are big, waterproof and breathe well.

Done lot's of biving in the past, both in the army and while climbing in the Alp/Andes. I've never bothered putting a mat inside the bivi bag always felt it was too constrictive. I just put the mat (Karrimat) on the ground and laid the bivi and sleeping bag on top. The pack becomes your pillow, in the days of plastic climbing boots (god that dates me) you put the inners in the bivi under your sleeping bag and beneath your knees. The outer shells stayed outside. Water bottle and gas went inside your sleeping bag so they didn't freeze. In the army we never took our boots off so didn't have the problem of where to keep them. Never used the army issue bivi's, I'm too old to have one issued, all we got was a poncho. The bivi I have is a survival aids one from 1982, they did a special offer 4 for £100 to anyone with a BFPO 666 address (Falkland Islands). Four of us clubbed together to order some, they finally caught up with us two days before we flew home.
I've an Alpkit Kloke as well now but I've never used it, it's more like a sleeping bag cover than a bivi bag. Seems a bit delicate for sleeping on alpine ledges. More for covering your sleeping bag from drips in a badly ventilated tent.
In a gore-tex bivi the colder it is outside the less condensation you get inside. If you leave the zip open you get a bit more ventilation but if it rains you'll get wet. A tarp would help in this regards not that I've ever used one, so can't help there.

+1 for an Army Surplus Gore Tex bivvy for trying it out, mine cost £35 a few years back. Hardly ever used it, prefer a tent, but it didn't break the bank.

Edit - and save your first bivvy for some decent weather!

Have spent many nights bivying both with and without a tarp. Still trying to find a bivy bag that is durable enough without being too heavy. I often default back to my issued Goretex bivy from my army days but it is too heavy for the ‘ultralighter’ in me. The next best thing I have found is the Alpkit Hunka XL paired with an MLD DCF Monk tarp, keeps me comfortable and is a fast and light setup.

I choose my weather wisely these days, and don't expect a high level of comfort but the rewards of a good bivy are well worth it. If you want to keep your bivi open to enjoy the stars or a view then some wind protectection in the form of a tarp can make things more enjoyable. Even a micro tarp like this https://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/tarps-and-bivy-bags/WE102.html can make a difference, although not much shelter in rain.

I tend to use a Terra Nova Moonlite bag (more of a sleeping bag cover than an all weather bivy but only 200g) and a tarp. Tarp is either an Alpkit Rig 7 for inclement weather or a Backpackinglight.co.uk Solo (278g, 2.75m x 1.48m) for wind protection if the forecast is reasonable. The Solo may be minimalist but the tieouts are really well positioned.

I find the important thing with tarps is having mid panel tie outs as well as perimeter and ridge line tie outs to maximise the covered space.

I choose my weather wisely these days, and don't expect a high level of comfort but the rewards of a good bivy are well worth it. If the forecast is wet I take a trailstar.

Bivi at Calf Cove, Great End whilst doing a continuous route of the 60 highest Wainwrights to celebrate an age milestone.

I've done a few over the years although mostly use tents now.

Some great memories of nights in bivis though so really recommend you give it a shot.

Highly recommend either the army goretex bivi (eBay) or Hunka XL mentioned as a first one. I progressed from the former to latter, and now have sold both and use a Borah under a tarp. I now will typically only bivi if I know it won't rain. Tarp is typically carried just in case but not used - can't beat sleeping in the bivi in open air when conditions allow. Woodland camps are magical waking up to birdsong and light filtering through the trees.

I find I can handle some wind, or rain, but not both, the combination ends up making things miserable (for me). You can get a good shaped tarp from Ali Express for cheap and light which I find easier to setup and use if not a little less flexible than a flat one. I found flat tarps need to be quite big to give adequate protection for my type of camping in typically exposed spots.

I think best advice (from me) for a bivy is to leave the tarp and just embrace the misery it brings. If you're not from Yorkshire then there's a chance that you might get caught fortunate and have a really dry night.

I just pack the shoes under the pillow (or maybey shoes are my pillow) and anything needing to stay warm, like water, inside the bivy). Try and get some kip and move on at the earliest convenience. It's a way of life of embracing the misery, but fast packing.

Other may differ in opinion

Definitely the army goretex btw. Only 400g heavier and around 40% more bulk. But you'll be happy at the breathability and the ample space inside to chuck your gear. Lots of ability to toss/turn. I think my first bivies in the goretex army issue type were my best and cosiest.

Shafiq said:

I think best advice (from me) for a bivy is to leave the tarp and just embrace the misery it brings. If you're not from Yorkshire then there's a chance that you might get caught fortunate and have a really dry night.

I just pack the shoes under the pillow (or maybey shoes are my pillow) and anything needing to stay warm, like water, inside the bivy). Try and get some kip and move on at the earliest convenience. It's a way of life of embracing the misery, but fast packing.

Other may differ in opinion

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Embracing the misery sums up my experiences.
What do you hardier souls do about midges etc?

Like other members of the forces now retired on here, we had experiences of bivy bags / poncho's & sleeping out, all part of the job at times nowadays I use a Hunka XL when I bivy coupled with a DD Magic Carpet as its small & I use it just to go over the opening of the bivy & keeping the wind off my head when I wonder off into the Dales for a quiet overnighter getaway, but now & again I do enjoy grabbing my issued Army Bivy with no tarp & using the palatial space that it provides.

I normally just throw my boots into my pack and stick it either under the tarp by my head giving me a bit more protection from the wind or I drop everything into my bivy if using my issued one. Very rarely will I stick the pad into the bag I prefer to lie on top of the pad in the bivi should I need to get up in a hurry Im not fighting with a sleeping pad.
When Im out with the trailstar & dont want an inner I bought an MLD Superlight so I can just crawl into with my bag if midges are out & can zip it up and use the net that it provides for my sanity.

If your simply dipping your toe then I would say buy an ex forces one, they are cheap on the 2nd hand market, massive & although heavier will give you the protection you need if you feel thats its just not for you, no point in spending a lot of money on something if your not going to like it.

Baldy said:

Embracing the misery sums up my experiences.
What do you hardier souls do about midges etc?

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And ticks

Baldy said:

Embracing the misery sums up my experiences.
What do you hardier souls do about midges etc?

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I had zippered midge nets sewn into the MOD bivi bags. Intended primarily for sand flies but would work dual purpose.

MOD bivis are the most hardy but not lightweight. Roughly around 900g.

This caught my eye which answers all the questions asked; The Bivvy Bug. Breathable sleeping bag cover and shelter area. Not managed to try it yet but it’s on the agenda.





1kg, so similar to the MOD bivvy.

The nice thing about tarp + bivy is the feeling of being out in nature, rather than cocooned in a nylon bunker.
Being tall, I favour the A frame style tarp (MLD grace duo) and a top entry bivy which can be suspended to keep the mesh off my face while sleeping, and unzipped/dropped for free movement when awake.
The £20 bivy sold on Ali express is fine, and weighs around 250g

Baldy said:

Embracing the misery sums up my experiences.
What do you hardier souls do about midges etc?

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Just don't go to Scotland 🫣

Shafiq said:

Just don't go to Scotland 🫣

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it's the only place i go
But looking at bivi set ups of 1kg i'd rather the comfort of a tent.

Rog Tallbloke said:

The nice thing about tarp + bivy is the feeling of being out in nature, rather than cocooned in a nylon bunker.
Being tall, I favour the A frame style tarp (MLD grace duo) and a top entry bivy which can be suspended to keep the mesh off my face while sleeping, and unzipped/dropped for free movement when awake.
The £20 bivy sold on Ali express is fine, and weighs around 250g

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I've seen people in those knot bivvies and they look like they're made for children. No idea how a regular sized or larger would fit in those realistically?

Baldy said:

it's the only place i go
But looking at bivi set ups of 1kg i'd rather the comfort of a tent.

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Why not then get an MLD Cricket (395g) or if you want more palatial a trailstar (428g) , combined with a super-light Bivi (230g) all in around 600g that way you get the best of both worlds you can Bivi or if you want protection then add an inner, just like a tent

Also maybe of interest:

Norrland said:

I've seen people in those knot bivvies and they look like they're made for children. No idea how a regular sized or larger would fit in those realistically?

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I'm 6' 7" and used it on the Pennine way for 12 days. It was fine with my long-wide S2S comfort + pad inside. I'm a side sleeper. It's snug, but that's ok, and warm.

I've got a rather nice goretex bivvy with a side entry midge net panel covered by a triangular extension of the top of the bivvy - possibly Mountain Equipment from about 20 years ago. But its not light - just under 1kg.

Things I like - mainly the tiny footprint, low profile, "camp anywhere" aspect of it. Also the design - compared to many bivvies I've seen I really like being able to zip up inside it but retain a view through the mesh.

Things I don't like - my mat doesn't really fit inside it, and if I sleep with it underneath I worry about it raining and just ending up lying in a puddle. Plus if its raining I worry that its only a matter of time before everything gets wet, either from leakage or condensation. And there's nowhere to change clothing / repack my bag out of the rain.

So these days I tend to use a small tent / tarp instead - less weight, more space and no worries if it rains. However, most of my worries are rain related, so if I wanted a stealthy camp in good weather I'd still be tempted by it. [Edit - thinking about it again, something I've also considered is pairing it with a very small tarp - something like 2m x 1.5m - which would be not much extra weight, wouldn't be used at all in reasonable weather, but would provide just a bit more security, probably just pitched as a simple sloping roof, if there was persistent rain.]

I normally use a flat or shaped tarp (like a trailstar) and a breathable bivy (usually a Borah). Shelter up if there's a risk of rain, otherwise just the bivy

If I'm using not shelter then I take a waterproof bivy (have a few but my favourite is the eVent Borah bivy). Have only bivvied without a shelter in the actual rain a few times, all the kit goes in waterproof bags as I'm usually bikepacking. Shoes under my bivy, either propping up my feet or at the lowest point to stop any sliding. There's no question that when it rains, it's more miserable. But it's very quick to set up and take down!

Top tip is to use a CCF sit mat. Doesn't weigh much, stops a wet bum when sitting around, and gives you something to stand on while getting into the bivy

Rog Tallbloke said:

I'm 6' 7" and used it on the Pennine way for 12 days. It was fine with my long-wide S2S comfort + pad inside. I'm a side sleeper. It's snug, but that's ok, and warm.

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This is what I had seen of someone inside one. Didn't look great