CCF Pad help

Discussion in 'Sleep Mats' started by manchester, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. manchester

    manchester Trekker

    I was given a GoLite Jam a while ago and the amount I pack into it every trip is just too much for it's poor frameless soul.

    So, I've been on a mission to lighten my load and hopefully provide a little structure to it. (I would buy another pack but I don't have the money at the moment)

    I've been swapping out a few obvious things and dropping a few items I was packing.

    The one thing I really want to change is my old TAR Trail self inflating sleeping mat. It's heavy and bulky. I thought about maybe trying a TAR Z-lite sol or the new Exped flexmat Plus. Because they would be the cheapest replacement (I can afford one right now) and I could use them to add a bit of structure to the old GoLite.

    I just can't decide, I've read a few threads on the forum and I'm just not sure what to do, try a CCF and risk it not being comfortable (I am generally a good sleeper, hike a good distance in the day, but I am 6'3" and have wide shoulders) or save up for something like the xlite or the tensor. (but then it won't provide any structure to the pack).

    also if I go for the CCF, then which one?

    Opinions would be appreciated
  2. Lempo

    Lempo Thru Hiker

    @Arne L. just bought the Flexmat Plus. We're all waiting for his report. :D
    manchester and Arne L. like this.
  3. Cranston

    Cranston Thru Hiker

    Something to consider. I reckon side sleepers can go narrower. But at that height...? And would a wider version CCF at 65 cms fit inside- I don't think it would? I think @Teepee linked me good ersatz TR CCF 51 cms wide one a while back, it was a good price. Might be worth a try?
    manchester likes this.
  4. Mole

    Mole Thru Hiker

    Hmm. I don't think you will have room for a folding ccf pad (especially if full size) inside a Jam unless you have a lower amount of gear volume. Which it sounds as if you have not...

    I used 2 versions of the Jam as my main pack for 5years, and it could be OK if packed carefully or a lowish weight load. But in the end went for a framed pack for the size of loads I was carrying in it for more than a couple of days.
    I made a frame for the Jam using aluminium tubing and a ccf pad. But it wasn't the best. I read of folk using correx (like signage board) to make a stiffer but thin and light framesheet.

    I still use the Jam occasionally for overnighters where I'm not hiking lots of miles.
    manchester likes this.
  5. Chiseller

    Chiseller Thru Hiker

    I've mixed and matched or gone with one and not the other on some trips.
    When I 1st tried a wide ridgerest... I shaped it as a barrel in my pack and filled the void... Seemed to take less space than just trying to use it as a support/cushion for the pack.
    Sometimes I fold my exped and use that to give back and pack support.
    Just remember to pack considerably I'd using an air mat as a pack /back buffer.
    My old ul golite pack would carry like a sack of spuds if I didn't create some sort of stiffener using my pad.
    manchester likes this.
  6. manchester

    manchester Trekker

    I'd consider cutting down the ccf pad, I could use my pack under my feet and calves. I was thinking of trying one of accordion style mats flat against my back inside the pack. I'd probably have to cut off some panels to make it fit though. I have the 50l jam if that helps.

    Now you mentioned it. I am worried about the space left though. It's one of those frustrating things that I'd have to buy to try.

    The jam is only just ok at carrying, partly because I'm overloading it a bit. I've used other packs on the past that carried better. I'll be changing it out when I can, hopefully if something good value comes up in the gear section.
  7. manchester

    manchester Trekker

    I'd heard about the barrel thing, so might be worth a try. The wide ridgerest sounds good too.

    Do you think you could have gotten a z lite against your back in the pack and still had enough room for overnight? (Which is 95% of what I do).

    I might give my self inflating mat a go as a bit of structure like you suggested and see if that helps.
  8. Teepee

    Teepee Thru Hiker

    I don't know, might have been the italian Mondaplen corrugated mat. It's good and solid, but I don't think it's quite got the guts to work as a standalone frame pad.

    I'd go with signboard. Like Chis, found that a barrel of CCF works fantastically but it obviously cuts down on the volume a lot.
  9. manchester

    manchester Trekker

    I've stupidly not considered that I can just try the barrel method with my self inflating mat. And also see how much room I have to pack. Maybe I could just do that for now if it works while I save up for a better pack / mat.

    I'm going to look into the corrugated plastic that was mentioned too.
  10. Cranston

    Cranston Thru Hiker

    No not the Mondaplen-must have been someone else then. Ta anyway.
  11. Baldy

    Baldy Thru Hiker

    D3CA00AF-A3B1-40EB-8293-FF7B7A72724F.jpeg 0E392ACC-9FED-4D58-9672-D967952D36EC.jpeg Being a bit of a jam tart :bag:

    The design flaw in the jam (especially the 70ltr) was it just too big for a frameless pack.
    This is what works for me.
    Using a frame from a Golite litespeed for heavier loads.
    An OMM duomat mat for lighter. 2 if i want a full length.
    Mole and manchester like this.
  12. Chiseller

    Chiseller Thru Hiker

    Mine was a golite speed.. Definately needed a stiffener with any load above 3kg.
    It was a hell of a good pack for weight to volume and I regret selling it.
    Id buy another in a breath.
    It would struggle with a full z mat.. Or maybe not if it could be folded into half in a U-shape.
    I've never had a jam for comparison.
    manchester likes this.
  13. Taz38

    Taz38 Thru Hiker

    I use a cut down thin (8mm?) rollmat as an internal "barrel support" which doubles as a sitmat, extra insulation, dog mat etc. With a winter sb that might be trickier, but I put the sb in first (in a large drybag), then the barrel on top, which is filled with the small awkward stuff. Works well usually. But my bag is 60L. If I take a zlite, it gets strapped to the outside (and is cut down as well).
    Chiseller likes this.
  14. manchester

    manchester Trekker

    Thanks for those pictures @Baldy. Its given me a few ideas I might try!
    Baldy likes this.
  15. Tartanferret

    Tartanferret Thru Hiker

    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
  16. oreocereus

    oreocereus Section Hiker

    I use my xlite folded up as pack support in my prophet. It’s probably not as good as a CCF, but to be honest I haven’t noticed considerably better carry with a ccf at higher ~10-12kg carries.

    You can absolutely get a little support from an inflatable mat.

    if you wanted more, I think a very versatile system would be the thinnest piece of foam, folded over as a back support with an inflatable mat of appropriate r value. Use the CCF as a puncture protector (will add between 0.5 and 1.0 r value) and probably be a better frame. Alternatively you could use a sitpad sized piece of foam as frame for secondary uses as a sit pad, foot pad (for a cut down or shorter length inflatable) or dry gear mat in vestibule
    Enzo and manchester like this.
  17. Rog Tallbloke

    Rog Tallbloke Thru Hiker

    I had a 50L (I think) Jam, but the top 15l of it stuck up too high behind my neck and impeded me when scanning upwards on steep scrambles. I replaced it with a 45L TNF pack secondhand off ebay and sold the Jam. I don't recall if it had a hydration sleeve, but if it does, a gardeners foam kneeling mat shoved down it makes a good pack stiffener and gets use as a sit-mat too. I have loads of correx boards from the last political campaign I was on, so if you want to try one, just dm me an address.
    manchester likes this.
  18. manchester

    manchester Trekker

    Thanks for all the great advice, ideas and even offers of material! I think i will experiment with some different materials in the back panel to stiffen it just slightly and give it a bit more structure. And maybe use my current mat in a barrell shape.

    @Rog Tallbloke thanks so much for the generous offer. I'll see what materials I can get my hands on first and give you a shout if I'm desperate.
  19. Rog Tallbloke

    Rog Tallbloke Thru Hiker

    Somebody's house 'for sale' sign near you might get 'blown away in the wind'... ;)
    manchester likes this.
  20. DuneElliot

    DuneElliot Section Hiker

    Darwin does this too. Folds his Thermarest XLite and packs it against the backwall. Between that, and a sit pad (cut down CCF pad) I think you could be comfy at night and still have enough structure. A Klymit Static V Insulated lite is comfy and won't break the bank like the XLite, Tensor or Etherlight
  21. Stuart

    Stuart Ultralighter

    I've got the old Jam (45l or so).

    The best for me was:

    - length of the cheapest nastiest 3mm CCF I could find in the back panel, doubled as a good sitmat andI then added this to my inflatable sleeping mat (Klymit Static V) at night. I started with about 1.5m and then reduced it to the length of the pack (excellent results, especially when longer so it was double or triple folded)

    I've also tried:

    - inverted V made from two pieces of bamboo joined together with some flexible piping like you get in camelback type drinking systems. Fit it into the back panel. I think someone on here recommended that (OK results - but kept slipping out of the corners)

    - part of a house for sale sign, as suggested above, again cut to fit down the back panel (pretty good but is getting a bit flexible now)

    We're all different but I didn't want to compromise on a comfy bed and wanted an inflatable mat. The Klymit I've got has been pretty good, weighs 400-500g (there are various versions, lighter and heavier, more and less expensive!) and costs around £50-60. The extra CCF definitely helps me when it gets below freezing and works well in the Jam. If you're doing shorter trips, you should have room for the CCF and another mat.

    Maybe someone here has something for sale?
    Mole likes this.
  22. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    That was me :angelic:.
    Mine don't slip out of the corners - but I did make the cane long enough that it was a tight fit.

    I've found that the cane ends can rub the fabric (in and out) and now reinforce the fabric with wee leather patches.
    I also added a sugru 'bumper' on the lower ends on the latest iteration. I shaped the bumper to a 'wedge/point' so it fitted into the seam preventing 'bulging' and 'lumps' which would get rubbed.
    Mole likes this.
  23. Taz38

    Taz38 Thru Hiker

    Thinking back, I've also used a full size inflatable mat (thermarest venture) as a barrel support. That worked okay. It gives just about enough structure and you still have a good mat to sleep on.
  24. manchester

    manchester Trekker

    I'm interested in the klymit static V pads. I've looked at them before, but the cheaper ones I could see all had an R Rating of 1.3. I would probably want something a bit higher. It'll be for 3 season use only. Those ones come in at a little more expensive.

    Im struggling to find a Klymit Static V insulated for less than about £100. I can see one from amazon US that amazon says will be £68 with import fees. It comes in at about 700g.

    but non insulated klymit and a ccf pad as a back structure to the jam might work together.
  25. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    I'd wait and save up for the mat "of your dreams" - make do for now.
    I speak from experience - compromise only leads to dissatisfaction and "gear churn"

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