Dan Durston/Massdrop X-Mid

Discussion in 'Shelters & Accessories' started by theoctagon, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. Rog Tallbloke

    Rog Tallbloke Thru Hiker

    Maybe A frame that end and carry a light cf folding pole for the other end?
    Lempo likes this.
  2. dandurston

    dandurston Trail Blazer

    I've considered filling one vestibule with the inner to basically create a 1.5P under the 1P fly. You can actually squeeze 2P in there, which is pretty sweet on a fast and light mission. I'm not sure about bringing it to market though because many people have strong feeling about poles in the inner space, even though 1P could sleep in the normal orientation and just use that for storage/dogs/etc, while 2P could do an inverted V system if they had 3 poles so there isn't a pole between their heads.
  3. dandurston

    dandurston Trail Blazer

  4. el manana

    el manana Thru Hiker

    Its something worth considering, a lot of people find 2 porches fairly pointless on a 1 person tent. Sounds great on paper until you start using it and find the second porch is redundant space other than a place to store your empty rucksack.

    Other arguments; I can switch porches when wind changes direction (how often does that happen? cook inside carefully), a storage place for wet gear (how often? usually just waterproofs, use the corner of one porch when it happens). Ive often thought the Notch would be better like that.

    Opinions differ from personal experience but all i've seen is the empty rucksack lying in the second porch, strange to base a tent design around that.

    I'd go for an extended inner, probably a solid inner first though.
  5. WilliamC

    WilliamC Thru Hiker

    Just in case a record is being kept, my vote still goes for a 2-person, DCF single-skin hybrid, preferably with a slightly smaLler foot print than the standard 2-P (though I realise that might not be possible). One vestibule is fine by me but I would want to have 2 doors, as with the YMG Swiftline.
    Helen E and el manana like this.
  6. Whiteburn

    Whiteburn Thru Hiker

    Well I like the overall design of the X-mid, having it symmetrical is one of the big advantages IMO. Once the fly is up I can insert the inner & then decided which entrance makes sense given the prevailing wind, I had to switch entrance use on the last trip when the wind shifted 45 deg & the driving rain made using one of the entrances a poor choice.
    My draft wall mod to the existing 1P inner worked well in blustery conditions on a bumpy pitch where the fly couldn’t be nailed tight to the ground but I’d really like Mr Durston to concentrate efforts on getting a predominantly solid nest available (for both 1P & 2P) rather than be distracted sideways into differing sizes of nests for the existing design.
    A solid nest isn’t rocket science, here’s my take:
    X-mid solid.jpg

    I guess Drop have just to be convinced of the commercial opportunity; it’s either that or perhaps the 3UF factory could to do a clone?
    cathyjc, dandurston, Robert P and 2 others like this.
  7. tallest of pauls

    tallest of pauls Ultralighter

    @el manana get your man on it at aliexpress, tell him he'll sell hundreds of them. Mass drop have farted around too long.
  8. Robin

    Robin Moderator Staff Member

    One of the great things about the new Scarp 1 is the extendable inner which means you can have 1, 2 or no porches. A really neat idea.
  9. Robin

    Robin Moderator Staff Member

    I like that!
  10. turkeyphant

    turkeyphant Summit Camper

    That might actually be the most pragmatic option going forwards. Save R&D effort for a DCF fly and also reasonably priced aftermarket solid inners will only increase demand for the DCF versions.

    Also allows for different permutations of inner for those happy to have a pole inside/1.5p inner on 1p fly for example.
  11. Whiteburn

    Whiteburn Thru Hiker

    I was try to come up with a simple design that was easy to make. I did think about some mesh in the doors but personally I can live without any as it's an extra manufacturing complication & tent inner fabric is generally opaque anyway so provides some visibility. Keeping the mesh limited to the near vertical panels reduces the possibility of any condensation drip ingress.
    Robert P and Robin like this.
  12. Robert P

    Robert P Ultralighter

    Looks a good design and quite similar to the 2P solid inner prototype photo posted by @dandurston earlier on this thread (#298). Like everyone it seems, I look forward to a sold inner option at some time for the X-Mids
  13. HillBelly

    HillBelly Section Hiker

    Barua likes this.
  14. Whiteburn

    Whiteburn Thru Hiker

    I hadn't seen that before as I haven't been interested in the 2P.
    My thought for the 1P was:
    For the head/ foot wall to have a larger triangular mesh panel (bottom seam horizonal).
    Vertical portion of the zipper moved (left in the photo) directly under the apex or inline with pole position (7 - 10 cm further towards head/ foot panels).
    Perhaps an 'L' zipper (one slider horizontal & one vertical) instead of 'J'
    Robert P and Barua like this.
  15. dandurston

    dandurston Trail Blazer

    That's likely what we'd do. The mesh area was too small on this prototype so we'd probably bring it down about twice as far. I'd prefer to keep it on the door wall and not wrap it around to the end wall (per your sketch) because mesh on the door wall gives you a view out the tent, whereas the end wall is just fly fabric.

    The zipper is offset a bit from the peak on the 1P so your hand doesn't hit the pole when operating the zipper from the outer side. However, this ended up not being a real problem so the current 2P inner already aligns the zipper directly below the peak, which does make it operate slightly smoother. If we develop another 1P inner, we'd also align the zipper directly under the peak.

    Regarding a 1P solid inner actually happening, Drop will be deciding in the next few weeks if they are going to do it. If the answer is yes then we'd have a prototype in ~2 months, and likely have those available in early summer next year. If the answer is no, then it looks like they'll allow me to develop it myself as an accessory. For a few more years the design is licensed to the them so I can't sell complete tents, but they have agreed I can sell accessories for it, so I am working with the factory now on groundsheets and folding poles. If they aren't doing the solid inner, I expect they would agree I can also offer that as accessory. I know it's not ideal to buy a complete tent with a mesh inner, and then an extra solid inner, but at least a solid inner would be available.
    Toby, cathyjc, peregrino_tom and 11 others like this.
  16. Whiteburn

    Whiteburn Thru Hiker

    So long as the mesh on the door down from the apex stops at ~ 50cm (20") above the ground I'd be a happy camper.
    Robert P and dandurston like this.
  17. qy_

    qy_ Trail Blazer

    I am with you for the solid but see it the other way around for the second porch, for me the extended inner would be quite useless since I keep almost nothing in it, prefer to have a place where I can have things that are not completely dry without having them out in the rain. And without having to remove them to get in and out,
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
  18. Mole

    Mole Thru Hiker

    This morning from within an XMid

    SteG, Helen E, Arne L. and 6 others like this.
  19. WilliamC

    WilliamC Thru Hiker

    Mole likes this.
  20. dandurston

    dandurston Trail Blazer

    Regarding 2 doors/2 vestibules on a 1P tent, I agree there is a lot of vestibule area and often that isn't needed. Myself I usually just use one vestibule, but do like having the second on some trips. I use it on packrafting trips when I have more gear (and more wet gear) and in trips that are really wet or snowy. For example, this past weekend it was snowing quite a bit and cold, where I had one door/vestibule used for entering and storing my pack that was pretty tracked full of snow, and then the back vestibules was for cooking and storing all my other frozen/wet clothing.

    The other advantage is just that it makes it a bit simpler to set up not having to worry about the orientation. With a non-symmetrical tent, you might wish to sleep in a certain spot, but then the door is on the wrong side of tent tent so it's awkward to get in and out. If there was simply 1 door then you could rotate the tent 180, but if the sleeping area was asymmetrical too where you wanted your head at one end, then you couldn't. Not that an awkward doorway once in a while is a big deal, but it does leave a bit more to think about.

    If we could simply expand the inner then we might but this creates other challenges or downsides, like having the pole inside the inner next and then poking out the top, which is more fiddly to pitch, some people don't like poles in the inner, it can leave small gaps around the pole exit for gnats etc. And added weight from the expanded inner.
  21. qy_

    qy_ Trail Blazer

    I guess my routines and thoughts are based on that if it starts raining it is always a possibility that it takes 4-5 days before it stops...

    It is in long lasting rains I find the second vestibule most valuble.
  22. Robert P

    Robert P Ultralighter

    Great news on likely progress with the 1P solid inner, whether via Drop or accessory in due course
    qy_ likes this.
  23. oreocereus

    oreocereus Thru Hiker

    I kind of hope drop don’t pick it up, as buying it as a separate “accessory” would make a lot more sense than selling the current xmid to buy one with a solid inner ;)

    Definitely. The main benefit is I don’t have to think about which side I’m putting the entry when pitching.

    It’s a nice bonus for organization, but a lot more than I need.

    2 vestibules are awesome for two people who are irritable after a long wet day ;)

    In a one person shelter, I would get a greater improvement in comfort from a larger inner.
    But I realize that’s a very niche product, which is probably why only a few pyramid tent makers make one, and seemingly don’t sell that many vs their “half inners.”
    dandurston and WilliamC like this.
  24. Rickyboyd

    Rickyboyd Backpacker

    Hi I wonder if anyone could advise on the following in relation to the Xmid 2p please:

    I’m not a big fan of the mitten hooks used for attaching the inner. I appreciate these are by no means unique to the Xmid but my big numb fingers especially when cold have massive difficulties disengaging from the d rings. Ordinarily I would just leave it in but wanted to separate this weekend due to the fly being pretty sodden and laden with ice.

    I was thinking about putting a larger loop of bungee cord in the corners and utilising the peg used for the fly. As per oookworks inners.

    What would people’s thoughts be on the above please?

    Also I’m not a fan of the door tie outs either. (Big numb cold fingers) I was thinking about buying some of the magnets which speedster stoves sell. Has anyone experience of using these as door tie outs please?
  25. dandurston

    dandurston Trail Blazer

    A much easier way to disconnect the mitten clips is to clip them to the grosgrain instead of the D-rings. The D-rings are secure so they won't come unclipped when the tent is being packed up, but they are fiddly to disconnnect. Clipping to the grosgrain makes it very easy to disconnect, with the downside that it can inadvertantly unclip when you are packing up the tent if you wanted to keep the parts together. I show this in my video at 2:10:

    Magnets would be nice. We did prototype some and they were pretty cool as long as they were they very strong type. Weaker magnets are no good.
    cathyjc and Mole like this.

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