Flatcatgear Ocelot gas burner windshield testing.

Discussion in 'Kitchen' started by Mole, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. Lempo

    Lempo Thru Hiker

    As did I.
    Mole likes this.
  2. Robert P

    Robert P Ultralighter

    I have got little first hand experience to judge the impact of a micro regulator, so that is interesting to hear (maybe I bought the hype!). Still, it is a good stove. And I'm actually quite tempted by the Ocelot; the stove may be a Windmaster, but totally windproof it is not.
    Mole and Lempo like this.
  3. Foxster

    Foxster Section Hiker

    It might just depend on what/how you cook.

    If, like me, you mostly boil water (and fry the odd steak) then a regulator doesn't seem to be adding anything. I just whack it on full until the water boils.

    If you are doing something more adventurous where a low flame level simply has to be maintained as the gas bottle pressure changes then a stove with a regulator might be for you.
  4. Mole

    Mole Thru Hiker

    The regulator improves performance somewhat as cartidge pressure falls. ( through drop in capacity or drop in temperature). And, has better low flame adjustment.*

    I have used a Soto Windmaster a fair amount over the last 2.5 years (got second hand)and it does perform better than non regulated stoves I have overall, but I've noticed it especially better than others when cartridges don't have so much gas in them. But it's not a ridiculous improvement, If buying a new one, I'd probably go for an Amicus for compactness and the supports being built on rather than removeable. I've found the integral Soto igniters totally reliable, unlike my experience with jetboil and primus stoves where they need adjusting, stop working or break easily.
    No wonder MSR totally copied Soto with their pocket rocket deluxe.

    *It's partially analagous (almost!) to regulator circuitry in an LED torch that keeps the brightness constant though battery capacity is falling.

    Hikin Jim explains here (click)

    Jim writes:
    A regulator valved stove can be built such that the stove can operate at near 100% flame when there is, say, only 15% of maximum pressure available. On the other hand, a non-regulator valved stove operated at 15% of maximum pressure will have a flame that is about 15% of maximum. Being able to have a 100% flame at, say, 15% pressure is the true advantage of a regulator valved stove in cold weather. Note that I'm using "15%" here. This number is meant to be illustrative more than it is meant to be exact. Each stove's design will be different.

    Ah, but what happens when pressure falls below that 15% mark? In that case, a regulator valved stove quickly loses performance. At truly low canister pressures, there is no real advantage to a regulator valved stove, and, no, I don't care what any stove company may tell you to the contrary. Technology only goes so far, and at a certain point, it can do no more.



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  5. Mole

    Mole Thru Hiker

    And to get back to the OP

    I'd totally buy an Ocelot if gas was my regular choice for backpacking. It looks a light and compact robust solution and possibly more effective than those half surrounding heavy solid windshields that clip to the canister?
    Robert P and edh like this.
  6. Padstowe

    Padstowe Thru Hiker

    I had both, I seldom use gas stoves so in the summer I moved the amicus on just cause I felt the windmaster was that little bit better over all.
    If I was to use it more I'd get one of these I think but don't see the point of the windmaster 4 flex one only being able to use with arms folded, the windshield is to small to fit a wide bottom 900ml pot, so it would only be the 3 flex in conjunction with a mug pot would be of use for me.
    Robert P and Mole like this.
  7. Robert P

    Robert P Ultralighter

    Similar for me too. I normally use alcohol stoves when backpacking and until this year had never used a stove on a day walk. But with the particular circumstances of 2020 I have done more local day walks and quite like to stop and make a coffee and I find gas stoves a bit more convenient for this. So I could save a bit of fuel with a windshield, but saving weight is not really an issue on day walks. However, don't be surprised if an Ocelot appears on the 'what have you bought' thread...
    Mole likes this.
  8. Enzo

    Enzo Thru Hiker

    I've only got an Ali copy of the windmaster and it's great.
    Could someone explain how a regulator can produce 100% flame at 15% gas pressure unless the regulator is regulating down the flow to what you'd get at 15% pressure anyhow?

    Pro would use a nitrogen push system ;)
    WilliamC likes this.
  9. Mole

    Mole Thru Hiker

    Bigger hole innit, so guess it is regulating down much of the time. Less so at lower pressures, so lets more gas through than the much smaller sized hole in a normal valve hence bigger flame possible at lower pressure. (until a point)
    Did you read the link above? (edit - Sorry - that comes across as somewhat abrupt! - what I mean is, did you read it, and so get a different idea of how it works than I do?)
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
    Robert P likes this.
  10. Foxster

    Foxster Section Hiker

    I've read several things extolling the virtues of regulators on gas stoves. It makes complete sense to me.

    However, I just haven't seen the problem with the Amicus stove that you are supposed to get with a cold and heading-towards-empty canister. I've used an Amicus in the snow until the canister ran out and it worked OK right until the end.

    Now, it might depend on what you mean by "cold". I'm talking Lake District in February cold, so -5° or so. Could be that a regulator's advantage kicks in below that temperature.

    However, I got worried about the Amicus letting me down, so I swapped some emails with a bloke at Soto. I said that the ideal stove for me was the top half of an Amicus and the bottom half of a Windmaster. That way I get the smaller burner and better pot stands of the Amicus and the micro regulator of the Windmaster. He seemed very enthusiastic at the idea and took it away to look into.

    So maybe we'll get a new Soto stove at some point. Or else it's a dumb idea and nothing will come of it. One thing being that I imagine the regulator adds significantly to the cost and one of the USPs of the Amicus is that it's the cheaper stove in their range.

    Just had thought...Isn't what I just described a Pocket Rocket Deluxe?

    And another thought...No to the above cos the PRD is basically a rip-off of the Windmaster with the same big burner and not-so-good pot support arms.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
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  11. Enzo

    Enzo Thru Hiker

    Actually thought about it and came to same conclusion :thumbsup:
    Regulated down from bigger jet, bigger jet allows it to run on lower pressure.

    Reading that bit by hikin Jim to me sounded a bit perpetual motion. You did a better job explaining by saying bigger hole innit.
    Mole likes this.
  12. Whiteburn

    Whiteburn Thru Hiker

    Clearing old files/ photos from the laptop & found this from back in 2013....the low tech version.....0.12mm aluminium with 3 large bent paperclips to attach to the Pocket Rocket. It worked well but a bit fiddly to set up, the Mk II didn't get built due to love affair with the Tri-tri.

    Pocket Rocket sheild.jpeg
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  13. Rickyboyd

    Rickyboyd Backpacker

    Would the Ocelot work with an Alpkit Koro please?
  14. Robert P

    Robert P Ultralighter

    I think they are mainly designed for canister-top stoves, and different for each specific stove: the one exception (remote stove) is the Kovea Spider, so currently it looks like you would be out of luck. You might be able to use the Bobcat windscreen (would depend on size vs the stove, but I think you can snap them out to a wider setting, and there is now a slot for the remote feed to pass through).
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  15. Rickyboyd

    Rickyboyd Backpacker

    Cheers. Yeah the set up looks very similar.
  16. Jon Fong

    Jon Fong Trekker

    Latest Video - Elaborations on assembling the Ocelot: Soto Amicus.
    Robert P likes this.
  17. Foxster

    Foxster Section Hiker

    Mine is arriving anytime now. I'll let ya'll know if its any good.
    Chiseller, Helen E and Lempo like this.
  18. Foxster

    Foxster Section Hiker

    [​IMG]

    First impressions...
    • A little fiddly to set up - but then aren't most windshields?
    • A tad flimsy but likely strong enough for several trips. Conversely it weighs very little.
    • My 900ml pot fits (just) but wide pots and pans aren't going to work as they'd sit on the windshield
    I haven't had chance to try it outside yet. Watch this space...

    Umm, hit a potential snag...

    [​IMG]

    The thin metal windscreen fits in my pot OK but the burner base doesn't.

    Now, a 900ml pot is as big as will fit within the windscreen when assembled and in use. So anything smaller, like a 750ml, is going to make stowing the burner base even harder.

    Show-stopper?
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2020
    Lempo likes this.
  19. Chiseller

    Chiseller Thru Hiker

    • Fiddly? Operational with gloves?
    • Flimsy/ Several trips? Expense in proportion to fuel saving?
    • 900ml pot? More importantly, base diameter of your 900ml pot?
    • Conversely? Actual weight?
    I've been tempted To buy a gas stove for two day treks with the wife after being won over by the little vango I'm using. Mys windboiler set up has its place, but usually on multiday treks. With the wife or when I'm feeling energetic enough to carry it, and lazy enough to use it.
    Cheers
  20. Foxster

    Foxster Section Hiker

    • Fiddly? Operational with gloves?
    Maybe. It's a bit fiddly with bare hands inside in the warm. Maybe OK with glove liners like I wear but definitely not in my outer mitts.
    • Flimsy/ Several trips? Expense in proportion to fuel saving?
    I don't think its going to cost-in (especially with delivery from the US) in terms of gas saving. Its the practical side of needing less gas for a trip and boil speed where it could be handy.
    • 900ml pot? More importantly, base diameter of your 900ml pot?
    11.5cm diameter Alpkit pot.
    • Conversely? Actual weight?
    26g
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2020
  21. Foxster

    Foxster Section Hiker

    A discovery regarding fitting larger pots/pans...

    [​IMG]

    If the windscreen is fitted upside down (as per their video and the writing on the label) then the base of the pot is about 1-2 mm above the edge of the windscreen. In other words, the mounting holes aren't half way up the windscreen and so mounting the windscreen as shown above drops it down a few mm.

    Don't know what this might do to wind protection.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2020
    Lempo likes this.
  22. Jon Fong

    Jon Fong Trekker

    1) the windscreen is upside down
    2) the mug look too large, the Ocelot was designed for mug up to about 750 ml
    If it doesn't work for you, you can return it - Jon
  23. Chiseller

    Chiseller Thru Hiker

    Sounds all good. Thanks for the replies.... Means it will work with my pots. Cheers :thumbsup:
  24. Foxster

    Foxster Section Hiker

    1) Yup - see above
    2) I appreciate that and I've seen it on the website. That is a restriction for some people, especially as the the base won't stow inside even a 900ml pot
    3) Postage cost makes that not worth the bother
  25. Chiseller

    Chiseller Thru Hiker

    Thanks @Jon Fong ml of a. Pot. Isn't helpful to most of us... An idea of pot diameter would be more helpful. I've a 450ml pot. That has an 11.5cm base. Cheers

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