Hey cold sleepers

Discussion in 'Sleeping Bags & Quilts' started by Clare, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. Whiteburn

    Whiteburn Thru Hiker

    Agree 100%....………...600g of 850+FP down with box or trapezoidal baffles should be warm enough for the British winter using a good mat.
    Manufacturers will have different design features, use differing materials & have differing £££'s that where the choice comes in.
    You'll normally have the fleece, down jacket & hat to boost the performance for the odd occasion when necessary.
    el manana likes this.
  2. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    I'd probably agree for males, but us females sometimes require more …..
    Clare likes this.
  3. Bob-W

    Bob-W Summit Camper

    British winter can vary from Scottish Highlands to the South Downs and the bag I'd choose would be different for those extremes. There's not many winters that drop below -6/7C assuming you don't choose a frost hollow as your camp. Whatever you choose make sure you've a winter rated mat.

    I think Alpkit have moved to a lower fill power down, not sure about the bags but my seven year old Filo jacket uses 700fp whereas the current model uses 650fp (both 90/10 down to feather ratio).

    I haven't seen any definitive long term testing regarding water repellent down but anecdotally those manufacturers not using it have a feeling/fear that it's not as durable.
  4. Clare

    Clare Thru Hiker

    Using the William Comparison Method
    • the WM Antelope (short - 165cm long) rated at -15 has 680g of 850fp = 578,000
    • the Lightwave 750 (short) - 170cm long rated at -14 has 720g of 900fp = 648,000
    From my other calculations the 70,000 difference between them should be equal to about 1.5 degrees in temp so the Lightwave will in theory be the warmer bag by a more than marginal amount although rated as cooler. I just put that up there for those interested in the ratings debate.

    The comparison method seems quite good, although I don't know the loft of the Lightwaves, yet as Cathy points out the loft of the WMs is on their site. But can fairly assume that 900fp has a better loft than 850fp depending on stuff rate. On this, the Lightwave is 5cm longer and a wee bit wider, so that down is dispersed over a greater area a which probably wrecks the whole calculation. Although i think the 1.5 temp differential claimed by the William Comparison Method could probably be reasonably sustained over an extra 5cm of length. Lets reduce to, say, 1 degree, which makes them equivalent.

    Edit, In fact the Lightwave 650 rated at -12 has a value of 585,000, which still exceeds the WM Antelope, weighs 156g less and is marginally cheaper. Maybe that's the right bag to get then.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
  5. Baldy

    Baldy Thru Hiker

    I think lightwave bags are very expensive compared with similar specced bags.

    A word of warning concerning the zip position.
    I had a Golite bag with the same. One morning as i wanted to get out the zip had snagged. It took 30 minutes of sweating panic to undo it. And i nearly wee’d myself. :bag:
  6. edh

    edh Thru Hiker

    ... One of my desires is for comfort during those super long nights. A roomy very warm bag facilitates this for me, so I prefer my WM bag for more than one night.
    Winter for me is about keeping warm but also not being too contained and confined in the tent as it gives me backache and I get bored.
  7. Clare

    Clare Thru Hiker

    That sounds undesirable. But the problem would be just as bad, if not worse, if a side zip snagged wouldn't it?

    According to my calcs above the massive price of Lightwave is pretty much directly equivalent to the massive prices of Western Mountaineering, but with 900fp down, so very marginally lighter, and British of course, what, what.
  8. Clare

    Clare Thru Hiker

    Absolutely. Don't want to scrimp on warmth and end up shivery as I'll probably then give up winter camping. I'm thinking that between Cathy's advice on her Antelope, your lux Lynx and my calculations above, the warmest of the Lightwaves might be the solution. Going to sleep on it, metaphorically, for a while. Then perhaps literally.
    Enzo likes this.
  9. Baldy

    Baldy Thru Hiker

    Never had a prob with side zips.
  10. WilliamC

    WilliamC Thru Hiker

    Throwing in another option: there are advantages, and disadvantages, to using a sleeping bag you already own with an overbag or quilt to boost the warmth for winter.
  11. Clare

    Clare Thru Hiker

    I only own the zpacks -6 quilt. I could get a similarly rated bag and put the quilt over that but then I'd have two pieces of gear of similar rating and I like my quilt for summer so would be unlikely to use a bag of similar rating.
  12. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

  13. Clare

    Clare Thru Hiker

    That's a £150 saving over UK list price although heavier due to the Gore Windstopper and extra length that I don't need. I've never thought to buy second hand from America, what\s the position with import duties etc on second hand goods, does anyone know? I don't have a current mule.
  14. Lempo

    Lempo Section Hiker

    It's about £8-10 processing fee + 20% VAT + in some cases a few % tax.

    I use a reshipper named Stackry, which will receive the item and repack if needed. I make the customs declaration online and the price, which I usually mark down.

    They have different shipping options, starting from around $12.

    I right now have 2 GG shoulder pockets coming from GG via Stackry as they were on sale for around $14 each on GG website, here's the breakdown

    Customs Entry £ 8.50
    Import Duty £ 0.00
    Import VAT £ 3.39
    Total £ 11.89

    I marked the price to $25

    Here's my Stackry referral link if you're interested in this service.
    Clare likes this.
  15. Munro277

    Munro277 Thru Hiker

    Lots of good advice as usual have you thought about an over quilt to boost a sleeping bag you already use ? I see valley and peak do one now too, but not sure on specs
    Clare likes this.
  16. Lempo

    Lempo Section Hiker

    There are couple of videos on YouTube and they seem to do custom specs as per requirements.

    Clare likes this.
  17. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    Sorry, 6' I was mistaken.

    Also depends on how "flexible" the sender is re. customs declarations and postage.
    I mean just how to put a value on 2nd hand sleeping bag ?? ;):whistling:
    Clare likes this.
  18. Balagan

    Balagan Thru Hiker

    I do the same thing as Lempo, have it sent to a forwarding agent and then fill in the paperwork myself. The US seller doesn't have to mess with customs declaration and sending overseas. As for underestimating value of purchases, besides being illegal, it's best to remember that it also means lowering the insurance value. YMMV...
    Clare and Lempo like this.
  19. Clare

    Clare Thru Hiker

    It feels like too much hassle to me, the ultimate saving will be about £80 and buying from someone I know nothing about, unlike here or to some extent eBay.
    cathyjc and Baldy like this.
  20. Lamont-Cranston

    Lamont-Cranston Section Hiker

    Should you consider a WM bag. Hermits Hut California. WMs oldest vendor. Check the free overfill options. You would get free overfill for what you pay via ULOGUK I think.
    So perhaps could go a cheaper bag?
    Versalite with overfill maybe? With cheap phone rates you can ring them and chat. I did. Lightwave bags are made in Poland I believe. WM buttery zips are gold. Good shopping.
    edh likes this.
  21. Clare

    Clare Thru Hiker

    Whats the advantage of over stuffing versus buying the next up in the range? I get that it’s free, so you get a warmer bag for same price but something doesn’t make sense. If the down is overstuffed can it loft as effectively? Surely the level of stuffing as originally designed is optimal ? I find this a bit baffling.
  22. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    Agree. If the baffles are designed to allow only so much expansion, adding more down doesn't alter how "tall" the baffles are. (Experience of trying to over stuff a bag :whistling:)
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
  23. WilliamC

    WilliamC Thru Hiker

    Quite some time ago, there was a report on BPL that found that the fall in thermal efficiency of down wasn't directly proportional to its compression. So there can be some advantage to over stuffing (as larger baffles would weigh more).
    Edit: I think some of it is here.
    Clare likes this.
  24. Lamont-Cranston

    Lamont-Cranston Section Hiker

    Pun intended?
    The owner, for what it's worth, of Hermits Hut told me a couple of things. They seem to make sense.
    First your bag will loft a bit quicker, second the down (the baffles being continuous on the WMs) will stay put better in the very slightly extra filled baffles-less potential for cold spots. The 58 grams of extra fill is spread over a whole bag. Thirdly as the down might degrade over time from use and compress a bit there is a wee bit extra to compensate - a bit warmer again. He offers (he said) it as the longest serving vendor of their stuff -special deal with WM. He is a 90 year old (walker) bloke and seemed to know his stuff.
    I bought a Megalite with OF from them but have never put a standard one side by side or used one so can't offer anything there.
    A older backcountry full snow mountain type chap on BPL named Eric B has and reckons the OF works. No doubt. He paid to have it done after using the standard one for a while. Distinctly warmer. Something at least to think about. His was the only account I could find when researching. Cheers.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
    edh and Clare like this.
  25. Micksjoiner

    Micksjoiner Summit Camper

    What's your thoughts on x-mid.cumulus 450 quilt,xtherm down jacket, trousers and booties set up for some winter camping around tyndrum area during Christmas holidays.
    I don't have trousers and booties yet.

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