Important re wild camping Peak District

Discussion in 'Hiking Chat' started by Chiseller, Dec 22, 2019.

  1. Chiseller

    Chiseller Thru Hiker

    Petition has started to preserve our right to roam....
    Please read...
    Here's the bones of it....

    The Conservative Party manifesto states its wish to make the act of trespass a criminal offence where police could seize property of people camping out in the long tradition of quiet and gentle wild camping. Don't make people criminals for making a wild camp, drinking coffee while watching the sun rise over the High Peak.

    Link to petition
    Teepee, dovidola, Lempo and 1 other person like this.
  2. dovidola

    dovidola Thru Hiker

    This doesn't interfere with the existing Right to Roam, because if you are 'roaming' in accordance with that right (which doesn't include a right to camp), you're not a trespasser. If, as this petition seems to do, we object because of our nonexistent 'right to wild camp', we are liable to draw attention to the technically unlawful nature of our hobby! (the position in Scotland is different, as is Dartmoor).

    For the record, this is what the Conservative Manifesto actually says:
    "We will tackle unauthorised traveller camps. We will give the police new powers to arrest and seize the property and vehicles of trespassers who set up unauthorised encampments, in order to protect our communities. We will make intentional trespass a criminal offence, and we will also give councils greater powers within the planning system."

    Largely empty electioneering hype, worded to appeal to a certain section of the electorate, and targeted at Travellers and (probably) Hunt Saboteurs. Trespass by Travellers for the purpose of residing on land with vehicles is already a criminal offence, and has been for a quarter of a century (Section 61, Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994). The most this proposal would do (in the unlikely event of it ever resulting in anything at all) is criminalise the act of residential trespass itself, rather than failure to depart when directed (as at present), and enhance existing police powers of confiscation. Prosecutions under the existing law are exceedingly rare because the aim is removal, not prosecution, of those engaged. That wouldn't change.

    Here's a quote from the petition:
    "We have homeless people in the High Peak who rely on tents in hidden places to survive, please don't add a criminal offence to their already difficult lives".
    There may be a valid point here, but that's a slightly different scenario to the "quiet and gentle drinking of coffee while watching the sunrise over High Peak", or indeed to a D of E overnight tent village!

    The reality is that our overworked and largely office-bound police service is not going to be out trudging over the fells looking for the occasional hiker's tent in the dark. As far as the activities of most on this forum are concerned, I would worry far, far more about the appointment of the first 1,000 Park Rangers in the Lake District, and where that is going to lead.
    Enzo, Teepee, JKM and 3 others like this.
  3. Chiseller

    Chiseller Thru Hiker

    And the rangers ask you to move... You decline for your own reasons... Tired, injured etc... They get arsey, you get arsey... They call the police... now your trespassing with intent (to illegally camp) and it all goes on from there....
    dovidola likes this.
  4. Nigelp

    Nigelp Ultralighter

    Do you think the police are going to walk up a mountain to arrest someone for wild camping?

    The law hasn’t been been made yet and will have to pass through several stages before it is. It will then need testing in court etc.
    FOX160 and Robin like this.
  5. dovidola

    dovidola Thru Hiker

    Exactly!
  6. Robin

    Robin Moderator Staff Member

    More effective than a petition is writing to your MP. As @dovidola says, it appears to be directed at travellers and giving police and councils more power to move them on. We had an issue here with an illegal camp a few years ago in the middle of a residential area.
    Nigelp likes this.
  7. lakeshore

    lakeshore Trail Blazer

    Not meant for wild camping, I think it is to control homeless folk living in tents under bridges and on highway verges.
  8. Enzo

    Enzo Thru Hiker

    No witness no crime
    Teepee likes this.
  9. Charlie83

    Charlie83 Section Hiker

    :eek: Taking it a bit far..

    maybe just poke their eyes oot #SnitchesGetStitches
  10. Teepee

    Teepee Thru Hiker

    Whoever confiscates my food bag won't be doing it again in a hurry. :D

    At least my tent already looks like I'm camping in an orange jump suit....
    gixer likes this.
  11. Rog Tallbloke

    Rog Tallbloke Thru Hiker

    Don't worry Pete, they won't be able to run away fast enough toting that.
    Teepee likes this.
  12. Enzo

    Enzo Thru Hiker

    Wasn't suggesting 'dealing with' landowners. Though my family are Neapolitans so.....
    But setup after dark and be gone by dawn, no witness.
  13. Fossil Bluff

    Fossil Bluff Section Hiker

    Ties in with an article in the Times last week:

    "As part of the Welsh national drive for a cleaner countryside, the Snowdonia National Park Authority have taken the unpresidented step of banning bright and colourful tents on the mountainside from 15th january 2020.

    The unusual step was declared in 'The way forward - CleanerWales' 2020 business plan released today by SNPA. Branded by some as policing the unpoliceable, the measure has met a great deal of support from locals and visiting mountaineers alike who claim that the visual influence of countryside users if extremely important.


    "We can all do our part in making the countryside a visually quiter place" said Dave Jones from Bethgelert "Its about time something like this was done to limit the visual impact on our fantastic and challenging mountains".

    Plans to limit colourful tents will only apply to so called 'wild camping' out on the mountainside, normal 'paying' campsites may accept any colour of tent because the visual intrusion is contained in a small defined area.

    Policing methods will include ranger patrols and a series of lectures at hostels to encourage peer group auditing with campers being encouraged to cut the guy lines and bend the tent pegs of red and yellow tents that they see pitched in areas without due authorisation.

    Meadows, cathyjc and Teepee like this.
  14. Nigelp

    Nigelp Ultralighter

    April 1st already!
    cathyjc, Michael_x and Fossil Bluff like this.
  15. Michael_x

    Michael_x Section Hiker

    Because, of course, the wild campers will be at the hostels to hear the lectutes, the underfunded rangers are well known to have plenty of time for extra tent patrols, and encouraging people to become vigilantes and commit criminal damage is a key policy of an alt right government pledged to be tough on Law and Order.

    <Above is tongue in cheek, I am well aware the Welsh government is not alt right>

    Yep, got to agree with @Nigelp. :)
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  16. lentenrose

    lentenrose Trail Blazer

    Nigelp likes this.
  17. Dave V

    Dave V Moderator Staff Member

    I take it Mountain Rescue were not consulted on this then..

    I refer to an article in TGO Mag last year or the year before where MR were quoted as saying bright coloured tents and or clothing help them massively when trying to locate people.

    Subsequent articles in TGO, online and speaking to people in local groups also all advocate the carrying and use of bright shelters or bothy shelters to escape the elements in time of emergency or to shelter whilst having lunch ect.

    I understand where they are coming from but it's not just wild campers they should be targeting if they are to target anyone. Other outdoor activities have just as much a visual impact and often are longer lasting.
  18. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    Oh dear ! Oh deer ! …….
    Teepee, Fossil Bluff and Michael_x like this.
  19. Balagan

    Balagan Thru Hiker

    Meanwhile, our Northern correspondent Malcolm Legge-Poole reports that the Lake District National Park is slated to make colourful tents mandatory as part of a drive to make the Lake District more welcoming to minorities. This planned curtailing of the traditional right to wild camp next to a pub in drab coloured tents has grizzled veterans of the British trekking community up in arms over this outrage. Calls for the sacking of all the soft Southerners associated with this preposterous scheme have met with wild support on Twitter.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
    Teepee, Michael_x, cathyjc and 3 others like this.
  20. Enzo

    Enzo Thru Hiker

    I support mandatory bushcraft activities and cotton bell tents with wood stoves and Persian rugs for the hills.
    Michael_x and Fossil Bluff like this.
  21. Balagan

    Balagan Thru Hiker

    And a samovar! Can't do without a samovar!
  22. Heltrekker

    Heltrekker Ultralighter

    Nice to see the Times encouraging acts of Criminal Damage, which certainly will be pursued by the police
  23. WilliamC

    WilliamC Thru Hiker

    Some people seem to have missd Nigelp's comment:
    Fossil Bluff has form for this.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
    Michael_x and Fossil Bluff like this.
  24. Fossil Bluff

    Fossil Bluff Section Hiker

    :p
    Spoilsport :p

    I’ve been waiting to trot that one out again for the last ten years... However it is no more fictional than the main premise for this thread. :)
    Michael_x and edh like this.
  25. Rog Tallbloke

    Rog Tallbloke Thru Hiker

    "because... in a 'natural' manner i would skin the offender who did that to my tent, dry out strips of their skin, and twist them into new guy ropes." :roflmao::biggrin:

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