Moving back to the UK

RoughHiker

Summit Camper
Totally there on the 'ethnicity' thang - I was struck walking in The Peak last Autumn, by just how few non white faces there were to be seen.

Especially given that, that area is surrounded by conurbations with a very diverse population.
I understand it's possibly cultural thing, a feeling of not being so welcome perhaps, or 'not for the likes of us' alongside the usual 'visibility' issues.

i did notice more racial diversity in the Pyrenees last year, over previous years - but the fact that it is even remarkable, perhaps tells us something too..

So?Why does that matter?
Nobody stops you from going out to hike,wether you are woman or non-white.People think that in every activity there must be equal representation of population groups or something?
Why insert identity in a hobby?
Its just walking.If you want you go out,if you dont and stay inside its fine as well.
Are you concerned about lack of white people in other activities?
 

Clare

Thru Hiker
in terms of getting lonely, or bored in my own solo company? Very rarely - If that should arise it can easily be addressed by making sure to put something interesting in there to think about, if the outer world should pall.... I believe that's what books, and suchlike are for...:angelic: And, of course solo travel allows you to have those in-depth conversations with yourself, to find out 'where you're at' ... Maybe the idea of having to undertake such an investigation is what scares a lot of people... :bag:

Haha. I'm interesting for a week and then I'm really boring. Actually, for me, it's more about not sharing experiences for an extended time rather than becoming bored with myself. But this yet more thread drift, about long solo walks.
 
There is a thread somewhere on women and walking..

Well I agree with this. If it's in your head, then it is. I think the lady who wrote the travelling lines blog put this point better than me: the question is whether the best way to address those inhibitions is articles discussing the problem of the conditioning or visible women doing and enjoying. I used to follow the blog of an amazing woman who rode her Yahama XT all the way to Cape Town and it never once, as I remember, explicitly addressed the question of being a woman alone. Although you couldn't help but wonder at it when she was alone on a flatbed truck of Congolese troops off their head on something or other. She inspired me to do a much smaller solo trip around the backroads of the Eastern Cape.

I agree with this too. It's all very well looking at women like Freya Stark who travelled through the middle east in the 1930s and '40s and wrote Arabian Gates and the Lycian Way, as she was an exception, without family. Or modern equivalents but I've always liked the image of Stark travelling into areas of Iran where no one had ever been.

:angelic: Well, sometimes we are, but then so are guys. We all need protection and support some of the time.

Discussing problems , and then addressing them, is usually a good way of addressing them - and then being inspired by others who have done it stuff, helps for sure :)

Some people will deny there is a problem to fix altogether tho -something along the lines of " Well it isnt a problem to me - it falls outside of my lived experience - so why should i bother to address it?"

You end up getting quite a lot of this - :yawn: but no matter - plough on regardless - it might help somebody - and after all no one is obliged to read this stuff.. ;)
 

edh

Thru Hiker
:rolleyes:

Yes, I will be doing a northern Wind River loop this year to add to the southern loop I did last September. It will be at the end of August but still waiting on commitments from people on White Blaze to join me. I keep a journal of my hikes and travels on my blog, including last year's trip:
https://nomadicpawprints.wordpress.com/

Your Winds trips look great - brought back a few memories (did the High Route a few years ago); having spent quite a bit of time in the Sierra I must say that I was really impressed by the Winds - wild and pretty empty (the Cirque notwithstanding).

BUT, I though the burgers in Pinedale were disappointing...but then we had ours before our trip, not after...

I'd like to get back there, and do a mix of on and off trail.
 
So?Why does that matter?
Nobody stops you from going out to hike,wether you are woman or non-white.People think that in every activity there must be equal representation of population groups or something?
Why insert identity in a hobby?
Its just walking.If you want you go out,if you dont and stay inside its fine as well.
Are you concerned about lack of white people in other activities?

Err yes I am, people are held back from doing things for all kinds of reasons, its easy to say - just go out and do it - get over yourself - but some people do have greater limitations placed on them than others - to deny that is to deny reality...
 

RoughHiker

Summit Camper
No they do not.The only limitation is themselves.There is no law saying you "should not hike alone if you are a woman".
Different people have different preferences.The fact that there are fewer women hiking,maybe because women do not like it that much.
What society "might think" about some activities,should in no way influence you personal individual choices.I encourage all women and men to go their own way,as long as they dont break any laws.
 
No they do not.The only limitation is themselves.There is no law saying you "should not hike alone if you are a woman".
Different people have different preferences.The fact that there are fewer women hiking,maybe because women do not like it that much.
What society "might think" about some activities,should in no way influence you personal individual choices.I encourage all women and men to go their own way,as long as they dont break any laws.

Where did i imply that there was a 'law' stating such? - Limitations, particularly psychological one, are a little more complex and nuanced than that, some are imposed by others, or implied. Some are actual physical or financial limitations.

its laughable to suggest that people are not heavily influenced by "What people think" examine your own choices - are they always freely, and objectively made?
Or do some of them come down to cultural conditioning?

Anyhow, lovely as it is to chat @RoughHiker , we are clogging up Dunes thread - what will she think of us? - Back to The Wind Rivers - lucky woman :)
 

cathyjc

Thru Hiker
Sorry Dune.. Maybe Shewie will move this to a separate roped off area at some point...

But hey! Better than being ignored eh? :)

@Clare I'd broadly agree with you, much of it is inside people's heads, but that is where many people spend their lives, fretting away about 'what people might think of them'

(usually very little - and rarely anything relating to us - and if it is, that is their issue )
.
It's arisen from centuries of conditioning perhaps, but needs to be tackled imo...

We're only going for a walk, and putting up a dinky tent after all, (in the instance of hiking)
I've very rarely felt threatened out there in any case, certainly not by other people - and the domestic violence figures show where most of the getting hurt happens.

And globally I suspect far more females spend just as much, if not more of their lives porting heavy loads long distances - water, kids, food etc - than do their male counterparts..

Doing lots of body confidence giving stuff such as physical work, weightlifting and tonnes of yoga, helps.
Although of course, with all this scrummy lightweight gear it's not as if we even need to be that strong :whistling:

So it is curious in a way, that there are fewer women on here, given that on average we are less physically strong as a gender..

Maybe that filthy pay gap, and thereby access to, and control of, funds for purchases. In addition to the fact that in a lot of households the bulk of unpaid domestic, and caring duties still fall on women, meaning they have less free time, to persue their own interests. These are the real issues that need addressing.

But sure everyone on here, has all that totally sorted - despite the occasional jokey 1950's 'beleaguered husband' club house atmos' that crops up, from time to time :rolleyeses:.

And yes I too get annoyed at the whole 'woman overcomes her inner demons by going on a transformative journey' trope being endlessly trotted out, unless it's done convincingly, with purpose.
Nearly everyone both male and female, has self doubting moments - chaps are just generally taught to conceal all that with bluff and bluster, ime.

It all perpetuates the same old myth of us women needing protecting, or being helpless out by ourselves.

I get the impression @DuneElliot that there are something like half as many women doing trails in the States, as guys? - still a way to go, but possibly better than here in UK - I don't know for sure - anyone got any solid stats?

If not, I'm willing to go out and collect some - for an immodest fee :geek:

:thumbsup:
 

cathyjc

Thru Hiker
From 2016 pct survey

Ethnicity is the standout for me, African American wasn't even a category, 13 percent of the population.
If you take education as representing class, overwhelmingly middle classed.
DEMOGRAPHICS

To start, let's take a look at some information that won't help anyone prepare for their PCT thru-hike, but that is nonetheless interesting: HIKER DEMOGRAPHICS.

  • SEX | 67% Male, 33% Female
  • AGE | 2% <20, 18% 20-24, 27% 25-29, 18% 30-35, 10% 35-39, 11% 40-49, 10% 50-59, 5% 60-69
  • AVERAGE AGE | 34 (σ = 11.8)



  • RACE | 89% Caucasian, 3% Multi-Racial, 2% Asian/Pacific Islander, 2% Hispanic, 1% Native American/Alaska Native, 5% Decline to answer
  • EDUCATION | 2% <12th grade, 6% High School Diploma, 15% Some College, 7% Associate Degree, 51% Bachelor's Degree, 19% Graduate Degree


The prime age for hiking is 18-35 !! ……. and that's just when women have to fit in child bearing and rearing, if they want to reproduce - and most still seem to want to.
Women either have to fit a long distance hike into the years before kids or wait until they are "past that" . Not surprising the % females on the trails are low.

SO WHEN ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO DO THE HAVING KIDS BIT FOR US ??
 

Balagan

Thru Hiker
The prime age for hiking is 18-35 !! ……. and that's just when women have to fit in child bearing and rearing, if they want to reproduce - and most still seem to want to.
Women either have to fit a long distance hike into the years before kids or wait until they are "past that" . Not surprising the % females on the trails are low.

SO WHEN ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO DO THE HAVING KIDS BIT FOR US ??
That would be prime "thru-hiking the PCT" age. Actual hiking by normal people which is mostly day hiking is overwhelmingly dominated by senior citizens with a majority of women. At least in France it is.
 
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cathyjc

Thru Hiker
Hiking alone in places like UK, US OZ and NZ is relatively safe for solo women.
BUT other countries are just plain unsafe unless you have a male to act as 'chaperone'.
I travelled thru' the Middle East, Iran, Pakistan etc. - there wasn't a country I passed thru' where I wasn't sexually harrassed and threatened because I was a woman.
That was back in the mid 1980's - I would imagine it's a load worse now.

Many western women are still in the mindset of feeling 'threatened'. If they are attacked by a man they are in a poor position, as they are likely to be smaller, weaker and slower. I wish it was different.

There's a new face book group for Scottish women hikers - it's growing 'like topsy' ….. women looking for others to go out hiking. I sense very much they want to hike in a group, tho' some go out solo too. Hopefully the walking in groups will, in time, give some the courage and skills to go-it-alone.
 

cathyjc

Thru Hiker
That would be prime "thru-hiking the PCT" age. Actual hiking by normal people which is mostly day hiking is overwhelmingly dominated by senior citizens with a majority of women. At least in France it is.

Here in UK - Yes - lots of senior folks out day walking, but IMHE a lot more men than women.
 

cathyjc

Thru Hiker
Women on Trek-lite ??

Generality here - I think guys are more 'gear driven' than females and the site is very gear focussed. Not a criticism - just is. I'm OK with that :thumbsup:.

NB. lots more imput from the female members on a topic not to do with gear - like this one :D
 

Baldy

Thru Hiker
Hiking alone in places like UK, US OZ and NZ is relatively safe for solo women.
BUT other countries are just plain unsafe unless you have a male to act as 'chaperone'.
I travelled thru' the Middle East, Iran, Pakistan etc. - there wasn't a country I passed thru' where I wasn't sexually harrassed and threatened because I was a woman.
That was back in the mid 1980's - I would imagine it's a load worse now.

Many western women are still in the mindset of feeling 'threatened'. If they are attacked by a man they are in a poor position, as they are likely to be smaller, weaker and slower. I wish it was different.

There's a new face book group for Scottish women hikers - it's growing 'like topsy' ….. women looking for others to go out hiking. I sense very much they want to hike in a group, tho' some go out solo too. Hopefully the walking in groups will, in time, give some the courage and skills to go-it-alone.

You're a woman? well I wished you'd said something at the time I would have helped you with the washing up.



:asshat::DHi Cathy:thumbsup:
 

DuneElliot

Section Hiker
Hey I'm all for having this discussion. I don't have ton of input on it as I've never really seen myself as being unable to do something men could do or that it was any more dangerous (in western countries anyway). Maybe it was that I left home at 18, with one bag of clothes and $70 in my pocket, got on a plane and moved to the US...to a state I didn't know anyone. And I made it work. And maybe because of that I've never seen the "danger" in anything I've done and I've never been conditioned to think otherwise (or at least I didn't hear it). My first response to anyone who says "You can't..." is to ask why? They never have a substantial answer that they can back up with logic.

When I write I don't think there's any need to dedicate an article to why I hike as a solo woman although I do see the benefits on some of those articles as they appeal to women who have been conditioned to think they can't. I'd rather just write about the amazing places I visit.

I like gear (although had to sell a bunch with the pending move) but I hope my experiences of getting into some wild places will inspire more and I can help other women get into this fabulous hobby.

:rolleyes:

Your Winds trips look great - brought back a few memories (did the High Route a few years ago); having spent quite a bit of time in the Sierra I must say that I was really impressed by the Winds - wild and pretty empty (the Cirque notwithstanding).

BUT, I though the burgers in Pinedale were disappointing...but then we had ours before our trip, not after...

I'd like to get back there, and do a mix of on and off trail.

Burgers AFTER the hike is always better. I had actually stopped at the brewery three weeks before the hike for a burger so I knew they were good there...as was the beer.

The Cirque, for us, was pretty empty. We had one HR hiker hike up with us to the top of Jackass Pass, and then could see a couple of other tents in the Cirque itself. But since we were going to Lizard Head Pass, and everyone else was not, we had the Cirque mostly to ourselves. There are benefits to doing any popular hike mid week and after Labor Day.
 

Ken T.

Section Hiker
Welcome. It’s a great group here. Much different experience than that Whiteblaze thing. Can’t fault you for leaving the US.
 

DuneElliot

Section Hiker
Welcome to the forum. What part of the UK are you moving back to?

The E/W Sussex area as my mom lives there. I am planning on going back to school so not sure where I'll eventually end up

Welcome. It’s a great group here. Much different experience than that Whiteblaze thing. Can’t fault you for leaving the US.

I love the US and am going to miss the epic backcountry hiking opportunities, amoung other things (like my firearms :( ) The only reason I'm really moving back is to spend time with family as we all get older, and that in turn will give me a chance to explore more of Europe
 

cathyjc

Thru Hiker
Hi, and welcome. Good move to join Trek-lite.
Hiking in UK 'could' be somewhat different to US - we'll all be falling over each other to help if you've got any questions. :D
 

SafetyThird

Section Hiker
I love the US and am going to miss the epic backcountry hiking opportunities, amoung other things (like my firearms :( ) The only reason I'm really moving back is to spend time with family as we all get older, and that in turn will give me a chance to explore more of Europe

You don't have to give up firearms if you have a suitable reason to own them. There's plenty of opportunities over here for hunting as we have an excess of deer around the UK that requires culling and control and plenty of other things like pigeon shooting for crop protection etc and there's many hunting opportunities across Europe that you can take part in. We also have target shooting clubs all over the place from smallbore out to serious long range work and calibres up to 50cal. It's not as easily available as over in the US but it's there if you wish to take part.
 

DuneElliot

Section Hiker
You don't have to give up firearms if you have a suitable reason to own them. There's plenty of opportunities over here for hunting as we have an excess of deer around the UK that requires culling and control and plenty of other things like pigeon shooting for crop protection etc and there's many hunting opportunities across Europe that you can take part in. We also have target shooting clubs all over the place from smallbore out to serious long range work and calibres up to 50cal. It's not as easily available as over in the US but it's there if you wish to take part.

Good to know. I knew it was possible but I didn't know the extent. I will definitely look into it. I'm not a super avid hunter but I do like game bird and venison!
 

Enzo

Thru Hiker
Sussex ain't so bad :)
From my own perspective its easy to dismiss people who get offended, or complain about social pressure. But I think that has a lot to do with being a bloke in his 40s in a stable relationship, with kids and owning my own house. Other groups are clearly more susceptible to others opinions.
On the other hand, I can't dismiss @RoughHiker opinion that some demographics can just have less interest in some subjects.
Having a very male brain I'm on a few forums for my other hobbies, and some have zero women on, who knew women weren't fascinated by transmitter valve audio amplifiers? Astroimaging started to have a few. building nitrous specific race engines, non last I looked. I'm not sure there is anything wrong with that as long as its not because groups are being excluded.
Re the outdoors I'm sure aspirational types are a better driver of change than discussion about privilege which to me often looks like a cul de sac.
 
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