My first backpacking weight

[echo8876]

I take Snickers bars and never get around to eating them.
I always use my map.
.......

im 196cm and 105 kilo.
resupplies and food are my main issues when planning trips, especially abroad. snickers is universal commodity in that regard, available worldwide.
and that shows how important for every backpacker to find his own way of doing things, we are all different.

 

[WilliamC]

snickers is universal commodity in that regard, available worldwide

But not always under the same name.
We found what was clearly a Snickers wrapper among other litter in the Kaçkar, with the label in Cyrillic script. I don't know if it was Ukranian, Russian or other, but the in spite of my poor knowledge of the Cyrillic alphabet, I could tell that the name didn't say "Snickers".
"Duo" was clearly written in the Roman alphabet, though.

 

[echo8876]

But not always under the same name.
We found what was clearly a Snickers wrapper among other litter in the Kaçkar, with the label in Cyrillic script. I don't know if it was Ukranian, Russian or other, but the in spite of my poor knowledge of the Cyrillic alphabet, I could tell that the name didn't say "Snickers".
"Duo" was clearly written in the Roman alphabet, though.

that's russian thing, probably guided tour.

 

[Jaco]

P.S. take a map and compass, and don't listen to strangers on the Internet.

The compass on my Garmin watch does the job well enough when needed and with the phone also having a compass, a mechanical compass is unnecessary backup, IMO.

Maps ... well, it depends where one's going and if the route is pre-determined. Few would need a physical map for, say, the Affric Kintail way, except for the very real pleasure of looking at one. Most walks are made well-charted territory and apps like Gaia do a fine job for navigation.

HYOH, of course!

 

[Seòrsa]

Im an exception to new technology & I will stay that way, I have no electronic gizmos, apps or fancy watches, My watch tells the time, should it do more?
I have an emergency phone which is pay as you go its had £20 on it for around 6 years, I charge it maybe 4 times a year. It makes calls & sends texts. I also carry emergency signalling devices should I need them, whistle, mini flares & a torch.
I research my routes at home & navigate by memory when I can but mainly a map. Im 57 year old & its kept me on the straight & narrow up to now in many places around the world some in combat situations so I wont be changing anytime soon.

No matter if your new generation or old generation EVERYONE should have basic map reading skills before venturing out, electronic compass or old school.

As others have said prior, take advice from the forum, sift out the chaff from the wheat & do what your happy with, not everyone is experts even though some think they are, walk what your comfortable with & do it your way.

Im never going to be ultralight but Im happy with that & set in my ways but have learned a lot and given a lot of advice on the forum, generally a good bunch of guys & probably the most important bit of advice dont follow the in crowd, buy within your budget or save up, dont write off the 2nd hand market I have bought many good items from forum members and all been in exceptional condition, good luck

 

[echo8876]

No matter if your new generation or old generation EVERYONE should have basic map reading skills before venturing out, electronic compass or old school.

so how exactly do i find reference point in this situation? just to refresh my decadant gps reliant skills

 

[Seòrsa]

I dont know what your getting at? apart from maybe trying to take the proverbial?

but if I were in that situation I would be walking on compass bearing's & using some good old fashioned Common Sense....short in supply nowadays by many on the hills.

 

[echo8876]

I dont know what your getting at? apart from maybe trying to take the proverbial?

but if I were in that situation I would be walking on compass bearing's & using some good old fashioned Common Sense....short in supply nowadays by many on the hills.

i know this ridge as back of my hand, that definetely helps, and quick fact, relative drop on each side is 200-300m, with huge overhangs that persist till early june. Two steep rocky climbs to get off over ~5km and impossible to follow without either knowing it's there or gps.


Im not arguing for the sake of arguing, or to dismiss your point. I've just provided an example of normal shoulder season milk, where you either have a human guide/gps/first hand knowledge, or are in a big trouble.
Im just telling that technology is a crutch that brought backpacking into mainstream, and bestowed countless benefits upon us who do it as our main hobbies, spending dozens of nights outside each year. It's safer, faster, more convinient and lighter. There aint anything sacred about old ways.

Before polartec, membranes, synthetic ropes, modern super alloys, plastic shell boots, chemical warmers, electronic navigation, jetboils, freeze-dried foods, water filters, wilderness had been a hobby for dedicated people that prepared for decades.

Now it's available for everybody, and i like it.

 

[Teepee]

I mostly take a physical map and compass, along with electronic. I'm ML, so it's pretty much cut and dried for me to do this.

As for the weight, I carry that in camera equipment alone. I've not summited with less than 20 odd KG on solo trips for years.

 

[Seòrsa]

Echo you do whatever suits you, I do what I do & thats all that counts I look after me. I merely said everyone should have Basic map reading skills & stand by that statement no matter what, I have no interest in what you do or what you dont do, lets leave it there.

 

[echo8876]

Well, reality is that if i go one a backpackers highway on one of the ridges, and ask every of 200 passing people, one would have a map, and probably a gray beard. Rest rely on one electronic device or another.
It's how it is.

 

[cathyjc]

Well, reality is that if i go one a backpackers highway on one of the ridges, and ask every of 200 passing people, one would have a map, and probably a gray beard. Rest rely on one electronic device or another.
It's how it is.

Grand until the electronics fail for any reason.

 

[echo8876]

Grand until the electronics fail for any reason.

Sounds like a belief.
I prefer arguing upon facts.

 

[cathyjc]

Sounds like a belief.
I prefer arguing upon facts.

Flat battery is the most likely.

 

[WilliamC]

Grand until the electronics fail for any reason.

For those of us who have to walk without a map, or a very incomplete one at best, it makes sense to build in some redundancy and carry more than one GPS-enabled device. And a basic compass to take advantage of the maps on our devices should all the satellites go down.
Edit: Perhaps we need an "Are a map and compass essential?" thread, to stop us messing up this one of Slowwalker's.

 

[Slowwalker]

Thanks to all for your feedback, all of it gives me food for thought.

To answer the 2 main bones of discussion - I am a 60+ woman whose husband is slightly baffled by my new hobby, which is an extension of the fact that I am a Lowland Leader walking guide - I have trained beginners in the use of map and compass! I have put my Garmin to one side and now use paper map and compass as my primary means of navigation ans use my phone as a gps tracker.

I use a paper map and a Silva compass (or a smaller Polymath compass necklace for lowland terrain) and so for me the topic is off the table. That’s how I roll.

 

[Alfie]

I am a MLW always have a map and compass readily at hand.
However I do use os maps on my phone for basic navigation.

I di find someone a few years ago pretty much walking round in circles in the white room on Cairngorm plateau, he was going to Ben Macdui, his phone had died due to the cold.
He was glad to see me and followed me back to 1141 and back to the car park.

Everyone who ventures on to the hill needs to be able to navigate with map and compass....

 

[old-skool-lite]

Double redundancy makes sense. Maps can be lost in hoolies.

I'm 62 for context & use both. Electronic is quick & easy so is my primary method now. Map comes out for group discussion when with mates & backup to electronics.

I've navigated with map & compass in a whiteout with heavy pack & ski's. Bloody nightmare but managed it. The cost of error was quite high. Elatated to drop below cloud to be spot on target. GPS would have been brilliant. Also finding tent or snow hole after a day out on skis in blizzard, darkness or both is another nightmare. Its the reason I bought a basic Geko years ago. Nearly skied into the tent before I saw it!

so how exactly do i find reference point in this situation? just to refresh my decadant gps reliant skills

Old school - carefully. Pacing on bearings from last known position. Sending someone ahead as a marker on bearing if not solo. GPS - piece of ****.

Edit. As per avatar - grey beard.

 

[old-skool-lite]

Aspect of slope. Another good tool in the nav armoury.

 

[dovidola]

Navigational error is happily not (perhaps not yet) one I can add to my extensive list of hiking mistakes/disasters.

Being of a certain vintage (in common with many here) I learned the map & compass method, and still find it invaluable. The phone satnav with downloaded OS 1:25000 mapping is a delight to use, of course, and much easier - it feels like cheating!

Hiking terrain is as varied as the skills and abilities of those hiking it, and like so much with this pastime it's an individual choice and one size doesn't suit all. Having got those mandatory platitudes out of the way though, I would argue strongly that when in potentially dangerous wild hill country it is irresponsible to go without a manual map & compass of some type, at least sufficient to navigate out to safety. Plus knowledge of how to use them.

In my case, this usually consists of a basic magnetic compass and an A4 sheet or two of appropriate mapping in plastic sleeve (25g total). It's not designed to enable my hike, rather to facilitate my escape should my electronics fail.

The most important stuff is that which we carry in our heads - the understanding of our terrain, how it relates to what we can physically do, and how to make effective use of our equipment. The thing about the map & compass method is that it forces its user to engage with their landscape, including the landscape they cannot see, in a way that the satnavs don't (at least not nearly as much). Thus, I believe that paradoxically those less proficient with map & compass navigation have more need of it than their more experienced counterparts.

The FAK requirements are, as @cathyjc observes, highly individual - at least beyond a few common 'must-haves'. My point is that the 'generic' FAKs are seldom going to represent either the best or the lightest option, given their requirement to be a general one-size-fits-all product. You're going to end up with some irrelevant stuff and possibly lacking something relevant. But the OP's onto this. Mine's 125g or thereabouts, and being constantly revised. It also contains some stuff not really countable as medical, like water purification tablets and equipment repair patches. When you've been doing it for some time, it's an interesting exercise to see which items you're constantly replenishing and which are unused.

 

[cathyjc]

The thing about the map & compass method is that it forces its user to engage with their landscape, including the landscape they cannot see, in a way that the satnavs don't (at least not nearly as much).

YES

 

[Many Miles]

I carry both - but enjoy the skill of using map and compass more and will have some days when I'll just concentrate on nav rather than a fixed route for the fun of it. Weirdo. If I have too much time between hill days I can get a bit rusty and it doesn't quite flow smoothly. When I'm "on it" I can reach a Nav Zen state. Om. If I'm out with mate(s) and chatting and giggling all day then I'll inevitably resort to the GPS on the phone.

 

[mjh]

Sounds like a belief.
I prefer arguing upon facts.

You certainly seem to prefer arguing…

You have your ways but that doesn’t make you always right and a lot of what you put forward as gospel truth seems more applicable to somewhere outside the UK or even lots of Europe so I assume you’re not in the UK.

That said some of your arguments about navigating are not based on many facts. Your example being a case in point - if you don’t know roughly where you are in those conditions on a ridge then you haven’t been navigating very well. The fact that GPS can shortcut that for you rather misses the point which is what happens when electronics break or batteries fail? Not having a map and compass even as a backup (and regardless of gps v compass - the ability to use them properly and understand what a map is telling you) seems to fly in the face of all common practice and indeed common sense.

 

[old-skool-lite]

Got f'ing maps & compass on my watch too! All bases covered!

 

[edh]

....jeeeez, get a room already