My first backpacking weight

[Bmblbzzz]

that's russian thing, probably guided tour.

I suspect that's an imitation Snickers rather than an official product. Perhaps the Mars co has withdrawn from Russia due to Ukraine war? Or perhaps not. Whoever makes it, it transliterates as Parkur and the Mars as Manevr, so some... interesting... military associations.

 

[Bmblbzzz]

Back on topic, I'd repeat what some others have said that it's probably best to stick with your current rucksack if you find it comfortable and convenient. But I think you're almost certainly far more experienced and knowledgeable than I am, so this is completely superfluous.

 

[Rog Tallbloke]

Camp shoes ?? - depending on the trip they might be needed for a river crossing. Easy to cut your feet and slip/fall on a river crossing.

Crocs are light, but useless on slippery river stones. I find that a pair of coarsely woven nylon socks stretched over the crocs gives a lot more grip in marginally visible pondslime territory.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

The shelter system seems awful heavy. 1kg for a tarp? I know the 3x3 are beloved of bushcrafters. But would an alpkit rig 7 not do the same for half the weight ? Esp with a bivvi bag. I pair a RAB siltarp 1 with my bivvi bag and it's only 200g. The alpkit rig 3.5 is similar, tho 300g.

Your pegs and guy lines seem awful heavy too. 8 pegs should be easily under 100g. Guy lines, from dyneema shouldn't be too heavy either.

Also sleep system. Getting a good sleeping bag is a worthy investment. Might not be cheap, but a warm nights sleep is priceless.

You're at the point where dropping weight means spending money. But there's some big gains to be had for not much money.

J

 

[Colombo]

Map and Compass = essential IMHO. Search and Rescue organisations and Scottish Mountaineering consider them and the knowledge to use them essential. Recovering "lost" walkers is the bane of MR.

I use a wrist compass. I used to have a Suunto wrist compass but I manage to lose it in the field. I now have a whatever-name wrist compass, which is almost as good, €10.
A compass on the wrist is 10 times more useful than one of those compass for cartography, in this time and age. One can glance at it now and them to better construct the position on the map and the trace of the trail mentally - I tend to curiously "change" in my mind the orientation of the trail, or the map - and one can use it easily for an "azimuth navigation" when the trace is lost and it's more practical to reach it in front rather than walking back. I leave my cartography compass at home.

As far as maps are concerned, I print from my monitor screen the section that I am going to walk through, with the main GPS POI, the crossroads etc. This comes especially useful when going back to the car at night, with the headlamp. The map tells me which is the next point, to which I navigate, etc. In each moment I know where I am due to the map and I know where I must go and which crossroads I must not miss. That consumes toner but it's very practical. I sometimes manage to re-use my home-printed maps.

 

[Colombo]

so how exactly do i find reference point in this situation? just to refresh my decadant gps reliant skills

If you are on a slope, a monotonous function so to speak, and you know you are on the trail, knowing your altitude gives you your position on the map. That, in turn, will help you find the next crossroad and know in which direction to proceed, or will tell you whether you missed a crossroad.
Even with fog, you will recognize a little bridge, a pass that you know, a little stream that the trail crosses, and those are normally quoted on the map, and that will allow you to properly set your altimeter. In a foggy situation, an altimeter-map-compass combination is necessary. Map-compass alone is no good use in fog if one doesn't know exactly where he is. Proper use of map and altimeter gives a lot of information.

I do use a GPS but, before buying one, I considered an altimeter absolutely super-useful, necessary. In low mountain groups, full of woods, or with no clear known peak visible, I agree map and compass are not enough. I bought my altimeter in 1991 (in a Casio watch) and I still use it. The altimeter of my Garmin eTrex is more precise but the watch lets your hand free to grab the poles, it's a fast glance.

 

[Slowwalker]

Many thanks everyone!

I’ll be refining this over winter, and will focus on the sleep system and tarp, as well as other minor things and will post my V2 pack in the New Year.

 

[cathyjc]

If you are on a slope, a monotonous function so to speak, and you know you are on the trail, knowing your altitude gives you your position on the map.

Most Scottish hill going you may not be on a "trail" and any path you are on possibly won't be on the map.
There won't be any man made features. Only landscape features will be present and rivers and rocks/cliffs will be in multiples so knowing where you are just by altitude ain't so easy.A proper map and compass and how to use them are essential for when the GPS stops working.

Our mountain rescue do a lot of work recovering folks who thought they could go into our mountains without the proper equipment and skills.

 

[old-skool-lite]

& altimeter's need calibrating regularly at known heights.

 

[Colombo]

@cathyjc
Yes, I was talking in general. I understand that a Scottish (or British in general) landscape may show little hills, all the same, and identifying the single saddle, or stream, or peak can be hard. But, you know, Alps and Pyrenees are open for business On the other hand, in case of fog, map and compass give more doubts than certainties, I agree with @echo8876 on that.

@old-skool-lite Yes I concur, that's why I wrote "and that will allow you to properly set your altimeter". When using an altimeter for navigation, each single quoted spot must be used to "calibrate" the altimeter because accuracy can drift quite rapidly!

 

[Rog Tallbloke]

On the other hand, in case of fog, map and compass give more doubts than certainties,

Some hills have a lot of iron in the rock that can make compass navigation problematic. Twice on Swirl How I've set a compass bearing in mist and found myself descending the wrong ridge. So, belt and braces, I take OS paper map and compass, and GPS enabled phone plus OS maps and multimap software. I now have a Garmin GPS watch too. It'd be nice if it would give OS map grid coordinates, I'm still looking for a widget that'll do that.

 

[edh]

You can set (Settings, Position format....) it to Datum British Grid if that is what you want?
Then in some apps OS coordinates will show....
Used to be an app or two in the Connect IQ store that would do it too.

 

[cathyjc]

Some hills have a lot of iron in the rock that can make compass navigation problematic.

I'd use OS Locate in those circumstances - so GPS does have a valuable part to play but it's not "the be all and end all" IMHO.

 

[old-skool-lite]

Some hills have a lot of iron in the rock that can make compass navigation problematic. Twice on Swirl How I've set a compass bearing in mist and found myself descending the wrong ridge. So, belt and braces, I take OS paper map and compass, and GPS enabled phone plus OS maps and multimap software. I now have a Garmin GPS watch too. It'd be nice if it would give OS map grid coordinates, I'm still looking for a widget that'll do that.

I'm currently using 'OS Grid Reference' by simonletts on my Garmin watch found & installed via the Connect IQ app. It lists the Chronos as a compatible device. Gets info from GPS. I see you can also get what3words app on the Garmin that give the OS grid ref as well but that needs network connection via phone or LTE.

 

[Rog Tallbloke]

Excellent, thanks.

 

[echo8876]

Oh, apparently inreach 2 has a good compass and usable breadcrumb backup navigation, i didn't even know when buying. Seems good enough for a backup

 

[Colombo]

It'd be nice if it would give OS map grid coordinates, I'm still looking for a widget that'll do that.

I am not sure I understand your problem. I suppose you mean that OS maps have a cartographic grid and apps such as Google Map give you geographic coordinates, so that you cannot read your coordinates in your smartphone and "make the point" on the map.

If you download a free app such as GPS Test you can have the coordinates of the point where you are in all formats. Garmin devices such as eTrex also give all sort of coordinates' formats.

I don't know which format is used by British OS Map, I suppose until 10-20 years ago they were UTM/ED50 and now are probably UTM/WGS84. You should find those in every much-less-than-decent device. The Android app Alpine Quest supports those coordinates, and actually allows you to have a primary and a secondary set of coordinates: you can set the primary as cartographic UTM/ED50 and the secondary as geographic (example DMS WGS84) and you see them both without having to switch.

In Italy, S&R uses geographic coordinates in the DMS format (degrees, minutes, seconds) so I always have those at hand (with GPS Test). In case they are certainly able to do the transposition but it's obviously better to give them the real data they need.

EDIT: I see there were other answers probably to the same effect.

 

[Rog Tallbloke]

If you download a free app such as GPS Test you can have the coordinates of the point where you are in all formats.

Thanks. I have OS and Multimap mapping on the phone . If phone battery is low, I now have UK Grid refs from the Garmin sportswatch GPS too, (thanks again Old Skool).

 

[Nigelp]

I don't know which format is used by British OS Map

They use the British National Grid.

“The Ordnance Survey National Grid reference system (OSGB) (also known as British National Grid(BNG)[1][2]) is a system of geographic grid referencesused in Great Britain, distinct from latitude and longitude.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_National_Grid

 

[cathyjc]

They use the British National Grid.

“The Ordnance Survey National Grid reference system (OSGB) (also known as British National Grid(BNG)[1][2]) is a system of geographic grid referencesused in Great Britain, distinct from latitude and longitude.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_National_Grid

And in UK almsot no one uses latitude/longitude, at least in land based pursuits.

 

[Corvair]

Many thanks everyone!

I’ll be refining this over winter, and will focus on the sleep system and tarp, as well as other minor things and will post my V2 pack in the New Year.

Have fun and looking forward to seeing how you do

 

[Bmblbzzz]

And in UK almsot no one uses latitude/longitude, at least in land based pursuits.

To steal someone else's line from another conversation, "Degrees, minutes, seconds can get in the sea, which is where they belong."

 

[Quixoticgeek]

To steal someone else's line from another conversation, "Degrees, minutes, seconds can get in the sea, which is where they belong."

While an amusing sentiment, I would suggest that those of you on the island should make sure you are at least a little bit upto speed on non OS grid systems. DMS is a bloody clunky system, and I would suggest for most of us it has little use. But knowing how to use Decimal degrees and UTM will serve you pretty well should you go for a wander on the mainland. UTM especially takes a little getting used to, esp when near the edge of the zones. 31w and 32w meet in the Alps, as well as the Ardenne. Working out the idiosyncrasies of this is worth doing in the pub with food lighting. Rather than in a bus stop in Luxembourg under a rapidly diminishing head torch. DAMHIKT.

On a semi related note, I bought a hiking map of the Cevennes recently and was absolutely horrified to discover is has no grid at all. Non. No decimal degrees, no UTM, no what ever the French version of OS grid is. Nothing. Utter barbaric.

J

 

[edh]

The French version is....amusing...

I just use UTM now, it's easier sticking to one format for me.

 

[Rog Tallbloke]

I bought a hiking map of the Cevennes recently and was absolutely horrified to discover is has no grid at all.

That's not a map. It's a picture.