'owdo ?

Discussion in 'Intros & Welcomes' started by Chiseller, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Fair Weather Camper

    Fair Weather Camper Thru Hiker

    And in the time honoured fashion...


    Lets avoid having to address a possibly uncomfortable truth, that might require that we modify our behaviours shall we?

    Good idea.

    No sugar for me though thanks... I'm already sweetie enough :angelic:
    Lady Grey, edh and cathyjc like this.
  2. Baldy

    Baldy Thru Hiker

    Good idea :)
  3. edh

    edh Thru Hiker

    Well if it helps, I think you are talking sh*te :)....
    But then I am male, ergo somewhat limited.
    Others seem able to chime in with 'cuben tent making' ... 'how many stoves can I take on one trip' and the like...
    Start your own 'lite-kite' thread...we chaps love a flighty female
  4. Fair Weather Camper

    Fair Weather Camper Thru Hiker

    Thankyou for that most well thought out, and argu'ed of refution of my theorising..

    Perhaps you should consider a career in academe..?

    Random noticings, which are of complete unremark due to their everydayness..

    The use of the female personae as a short hand for indicating weakness, of any sort...

    "weirdly my daughter is into hillwalking, but my son not so"

    Why so weird??

    Obv we don't know the whole back story.. Maybe the girl was showed films of bear attaks, the boy only snow peak filled vistas..

    I could go on (and of course frequently do - it's such a 'womanly' trait...)

    If I had the time...

    But sadly I do too, have boring old work to do too..

    But consider perhaps that If 'the system' in which you operate, serves you well, then why should you choose to notice its inequalities?

    I could come on here and speak of many subjects pertaining to the outdoors, excursing, and the equipment used there... It is after all what I've spent most of my life doing, in one capacity or another, making a reasonable fist of succeeding in traditionally male occupations, and recreations...

    But curiously, despite all that, I still don't feel particularly comfortable here...

    That's probs just me...

    Never mind, maybe, I'll will just go fly my kite, and 'have a moment'.. :)
    Lady Grey likes this.
  5. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    ^^^ Quote - "But consider perhaps that If 'the system' in which you operate, serves you well, then why should you choose to notice its inequalities? "

    That just about sums up 'life in general' :(:cry:. And folks don't like to be made to feel uncomfortable.
  6. Fair Weather Camper

    Fair Weather Camper Thru Hiker

    Sorry Cathy, didn't mean to make you or anyone feel uncomfortable... But. I have 'interviewed' so many women over the years about why they don't feel comfortable doing this kind of stuff...

    And they nearly always seem to have a variation on a theme of they'd like to but, don't feel it's for them... They don't feel 'allowed to, or qualified to, or encouraged, or even see other women doing the same'...

    They are not told directly, that they mustn't, it's more a general atmosphere, of "Not for the likes of you".. "This is man stuff"

    Ho and hum, and on we go... :)
  7. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    @Fair - Weather Camper you didn't make me uncomfortable at all. I can be as Feminist as the best of them …….. I didn't think it was in my own best interests :biggrin:

    I was suggesting that men sometimes find it uncomfortable when women point out their unconcious 'male patrimony', which dominates our society.
    - They don't necessarily think that 'they' are part of the gender inequality which pervades our society.

    Your quote applies to many inequalities eg. being "white", being "wealthy" not just "being male".

    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
    Fair Weather Camper and edh like this.
  8. Fair Weather Camper

    Fair Weather Camper Thru Hiker

    No I know Cathy; its fine; I am fully aware of your equality championing credentials from other platforms; be in no doubt about that. :)

    I am also keenly aware of the 'privilege' that I accrue through being white, and from a well educated, liberal, equality for women; in all things; championing background.

    And yes; I realise it is uncomfortable to have these 'dominant patriarchal' truths pointed out...

    Moreover, one appreciates that it is difficult for some to conceive of, how it might be, to be someone, other than who they are; and the struggles that might result from that.....

    - It does demand a certain amount of mental effort, and imagination

    But these unearned gender advantages, are so pervasive that when their unfairness, and general debilitating effect is challenged; the response is very often.

    " Yeah - so? What do you expect me to do about it, it's not my problem is it? Get over it; that's just how life is; at least you're not living in ----/--- (insert name of country where the treatment of women is truly appalling)

    Perhaps even more uncomfortable still, is to be reminded that -

    " If you're not part of the solution; then you're most likely part of the problem"

    And really, truly, I am not having a go at you here Cathy

    [I know how it is from years and years of biting my tongue, laughing it off, going along with 'the patronise or denigrate the woman' jokes, and phraseology - oh yes ha ha; so very droll , on the farm, in the woods, on the hill, in the bike, or gear shop, at the machinery sale yard etc etc. because not to do so, marks you down as being 'no fun' - the ultimate sin!!!

    Plus of course, in these more traditionally male dominated spheres, there's always the worry of not quite 'measuring up*

    (s'okay guys - I know you suffer with that one at times too... :bear:)

    But your phrase - "I didn't think it was in my best interests" is quite telling, non?

    Mustn't offend 'the dominant alphas' , or any fragile egos huh? :biggrin:

    Very sensible

    Anyway sweetie ; i'm quite clearly wasting mine, and everyone else's time here..

    I only came in...

    to get my coat...

    That very pretty purple one ... :rolleyeses:

    See you elsewhere; who knows maybe even; one day ; deep within your citrus groves... :lurking:

    ( As it happens; i do very much; measure up; especially as nowadays I have my own personalised yardstick for success :thumbsup:)
  9. gixer

    gixer Thru Hiker

    And here were folks thinking i talked ****** :whistling:

    Is it some sort of code, is FWC really a Russian spy using our little forum to pass information back to the motherland?
    Seems like random sentences taking out of book then pieced together to form a passive aggressive reprimand :wideyed:

    But then what do i know i'm just a unemployed, disabled, immigrant, must be tough being a martyn in comparison :D:D:D:D
    edh likes this.
  10. edh

    edh Thru Hiker

    A Martian?

    Most of the cr*p you scribe is from another planet :p
    Lady Grey likes this.
  11. gixer

    gixer Thru Hiker

    Could be, i do seem to carry my own weather systems with me :eek:

    What a ***** superpower that'd be "bad weather man" :wacky:
    edh likes this.
  12. Lady Grey

    Lady Grey Thru Hiker

    Must have had a canny senior Mentor...:thumbsup:.but lets be a bit posh here, Ruth...Grammar School...:whistling:, please...
    credit where's credit's due, I say....;)
    Fair Weather Camper likes this.
  13. Fair Weather Camper

    Fair Weather Camper Thru Hiker

    Go on then, just for you my dear.. In words of slightly fewer syllables.. I'm guessing you meant martyr..?

    Nope, I'm not a martyr in the slightest - I generally decide what I'm going to do, and then work out a way of using my not inconsiderable talents, and resources to make that thing happen..Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesnt.. That's how life goes

    However having worked, and played alongside blokey bloxxsy, "we guys are in charge, we always know best, our voices are louder, and often much ruder, so you'd better pipe down and listen to us" .. for much of my life, I see all that posturing, and those gender assumptions, for the mostly hot air they are... . ...Personally, I'm more than capable of holding, (and carrying) my own, in those situations..

    "Hey - Bants!! What Larks!!... Yes very funny, until it slightly isn't funny, eventually...

    However, my point was, obviously not made clearly enough.

    Having asked many women, about what puts them off getting involved in more outdoor activities (and surely lightweight backpacking would be an ideal pursuit for the 'weaker sex' ha!) )

    They have told me that that aside from the usual, pressures of time, too many responsibilities etc etc, they often lack confidence, to give it a go, because of the slightly 'macho' atmosphere in gear shops, in available literature, and maybe even on forums such as this...

    And because they don't see it as such a commonplace activity for women, that they will be judged by the prevailing 'male' standards...

    These are naturally only my opinions, and my experiences, and maybe my research modalities when interviewing these women were not wholly unbiased..

    As they say, the plural for anecdote, is not statistics..

    But we have, to hand, a hopefully reliable researcher, who has informed us that there are still only half as many women, as men, doing the trails Stateside. In what is supposedly an egalitarian country.. Things are getting better.. But very slowly, and certainly not helped by 'old school' attitudes, and prejudices.

    I really hope this makes my position clearer..
    I'm at a loss as to know, how I could do more..

    And I definitely wasn't having a go at Cathy - she is a shining example of getting on with it, and encouraging others so to do.

    You're quite right Annie it was Ms Valkyrie's 'Acadamy' of Advanced Axe Throwing - not just any old skool ;)
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
    cathyjc and Lady Grey like this.
  14. gixer

    gixer Thru Hiker

    Of course the fundamental flaws in your opinion are the fact that

    1/ You are dramatically generalising pretty much half the planet's population
    Pretty insulting for the majority of us guys that aren't sexist
    Hardly gives the rest an incentive to change does it

    You're harking on about sexism, but then doing exactly what you're complaining about
    If you changed your wording for a certain skin colour or geographical location you'd be classed as racist, yet here you are generalising and tainting all blokes with the same brush

    2/ You're labelling women as "lack confidence"
    Lacking confidence is hardly a gender specific problem is it, don't you think there are guys out there that lack the confidence to go out hiking alone.
    That doesn't really fit into your daily mail type "outrage" though does it
    Also pretty insulting to women, i don't know a single woman that would not have the determination to do what she wants to do, so labelling every woman that doesn't hike as a person that "lacks confidence" isn't really helping the sexism cause

    3/ You're looking at this from only one perspective, i.e. a woman with a chip on her shoulder
    Most of the stuff you talk about is also problems for many of us blokes

    Live your life, don't let others crush your dreams and chase them with the energy and determination of a rabbit in breeding season

    That advice holds true no matter what sex, colour or creed you are
  15. Fair Weather Camper

    Fair Weather Camper Thru Hiker

    No not generalising, just observing, there are plenty of decent men out there.
    I am lucky enough to have many as personal friends

    I have very few chips on my shoulders, regarding being female. Yes I've had a few fairly dreadful experiences at the hands of men... But that is sadly, still a commonplace occurrence, for a lot of women...

    And I'm more than aware. of the violence visited upon men, by other men... Quite shocking.

    Personally Ive decided not to let that colour my view of the world, that would be self limiting. and would have stopped me having so many adventures, so I have gone out in pursuit of 'my dreams'.

    I would still assert though that many females are dissuaded from this approach by the culture in which they find themselves..

    And yes, I agree, the non white face is also very much. under represented - in the European hills at least - That is another issue that definitely needs tackling..

    All fascinating stuff, but I really should be working...

    Maybe later, or perhaps best left??
    gixer likes this.
  16. murpharoo

    murpharoo Section Hiker

    Jesus ! :arghh:

    Cuben.... An Teallach....Gossamer Gear....Knoydart..... Ultralight.....

    Phew.... Normal service is resumed...

    No need to thank me. You're all welcome :D
    JimH, Mole, edh and 4 others like this.
  17. Fair Weather Camper

    Fair Weather Camper Thru Hiker

    Don't forget the line-locs... :)
    edh and JimH like this.
  18. Shewie

    Shewie Administrator Staff Member

    I'll move all this into a new thread when I get home tonight, any thoughts on a title?
    Tartanferret, Mole and edh like this.
  19. murpharoo

    murpharoo Section Hiker

    I'm not even sure what was being discussed... Too many big words. I almost used Google translate !
    Fair Weather Camper, edh and Shewie like this.
  20. Fair Weather Camper

    Fair Weather Camper Thru Hiker

    How about -

    "The not-so-silent-wives of trek-lite" :rolleyes:

    Not married anyhows... Perpetuation of the symbolisms of the Patriarchal system.. Etc etc :D

    Plus - who'd be fool enough to propose such a notion..? :bear:
    Padstowe and Lady Grey like this.
  21. edh

    edh Thru Hiker

    Several :whistling:
  22. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    "Where are all the women ? "
  23. Balagan

    Balagan Thru Hiker

    Here are a few suggestions:

    Tempest in a Titanium Teacup
    Machismo Meets its Match
    Strident Wives of Trek-Lite
    So 'Ere's to You, Fuzzy-Wuzzy
    Pa'alante, Grrrls!
    Speaker's Corner

    My coat is already on, I am heading out of the door as I type and I fervently hope Mrs Valkyrie's classes did not include axe throwing. ;););)
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
  24. Ken T.

    Ken T. Section Hiker

    Girls rule.
    Mole and cathyjc like this.
  25. Fair Weather Camper

    Fair Weather Camper Thru Hiker

    Not like you to be so unforthcoming...
    Come on; speak up; we promise not to poke fun... :geek:

    Hmmn, little late in the day to be favour currying now, Ken... You angling to be an honourary gurl?

    Ignorance can be, both a blessing, and a curse. :redface:

    I like 'Strident Wives'. :thumbsup:

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