Discussion in 'Clothing & Footwear' started by Stuart f, Jan 30, 2020.

  1. Stuart f

    Stuart f Summit Camper

    Okay so I know it may have been discussed many times but.... I’m really disappointed with Nikwax.
    After a chat with a guy in paramo shop I carried out reproducing as he said.
    Boil wash empty machine after cleaning dispenser tray.
    2 items max and do a tech wash
    Same again with the tx direct

    problem is my ME lhotse, which is only a few years old, won’t even keep sideways light rain out for 30 mins. Done a couple of trips Less than 4 hours and found my atom light underneath it is soaked too, right through to my merino base. Mainly arms and chest. Definitely not too hot so ruled out sweat . Baffled

    read that grangers may not be much better but have seen something called 303 fabric guard 3605 which is raves about. Think it may have dodgy environmental credentials though so reluctant to try.

    anybody got a pearl of wisdom as I’m sure this jacket is not dead yet.
  2. Mole

    Mole Thru Hiker

    Re proofer is for dwr. I. E. To make it bead better. And not wet out.

    Sounds like your jacket may be actually leaking? In which case, being goretex its either a replace under guarantee job or accept its no longer waterproof.
    WilliamC likes this.
  3. Robin

    Robin Moderator Staff Member

  4. Teepee

    Teepee Thru Hiker

    Did you wash the TX direct in?

    For most laminates, the reproofer wants to be applied to the outside only. TX spray on is best for this. As Mole says, you are only trying to refresh the DWR on the outside layer to slow it wetting out and keep it breathing.

    If you wash the stuff in, it really doesn't help the breathabilty and stops the vapour moving through the membrane.

    Paramo is different, it needs washing into the pump liner and the shell.
    Mole likes this.
  5. PhilHo

    PhilHo Thru Hiker

    FWIW I agree with Mole. My take on it is Nikwax and other similar water carried waxes are not re proofers, as far as Goretex is concerned. There use is to renew the DWR, which is there to stop the surface wetting out, so that the ptfe layer can work its keeping rain out and allowing the material to breathe trick. So as Mole says it may well be that the jacket is leaking. Shoulders might be because or backpack wear. I would suspect the zip for chest leaking.

    I have a Berghaus Mera Peak that has, I think, the same zip on it and that leaks at the zip.
  6. Stuart f

    Stuart f Summit Camper

    I’ll do another tech wash and then try the spray on the outside only and see what gives
    I refuse to accept it’s dead yet. Looks virtually new despite its few years of use
    Might drop mountain equipment an email too to get their take on it . It’s the arms that get wettest .
    At this rate I’ll be getting a buffalo win shirt so I don’t have to worry about proofing at all :(
  7. PhilHo

    PhilHo Thru Hiker

    Stupid question but, Its not water migrating up the arms from the wrist is it?
  8. Stuart f

    Stuart f Summit Camper

    I don’t think so. I do use poles but then I’ve always used poles and it’s never done it before . the first time I used the jacket I got wet hair as it came through the hood. Maybe I should have heard alarm bells then.
  9. Diddi

    Diddi Thru Hiker

    Stupid question again but are you sure its not sweat?
    If I wore a goretex jacket for 4 hours in rain I too would be getting rather sweaty underneath.
    Stand in the shower (or hang it) with cold water see if you get the same results....
  10. Stuart f

    Stuart f Summit Camper

    On the last hill (place fell last saturday) I was with my 22 year old daughter. It was a really slow plod, followed by a pause, followed by a really slow plod. O was freezing as I couldn’t get enough pace to warm up , let alone sweat. I’d proofed the jacket during the week and it still leaked.
    just found a tx spray on so I’ve got a 90degree wash on and then I’ll put it in a teach wash and spray it in the bath. think it says lie it flat and spray it, wait 2 mins, dab off excess and turn over to repeat.
  11. Stuart f

    Stuart f Summit Camper

    Any recommendations for similar spec jacket if it is dead?
  12. Enzo

    Enzo Thru Hiker

    I use mole's advice of keeping a wpb jacket in a stuff sack and only using when it's really raining. Good reason for using a windproof. As I understand it the c6 dwr coatings goretex etc use are removed through abrasion and time. Three years may be the lifetime of the jacket if used often. My experience of nikwax to replenish dwr is it doesn't work for more than half an hour.
    You could try one of the membrane on the outside garments like outdry. C8 apparently was much longer lasting but had calamitous environmental problems.
    cathyjc likes this.
  13. Foxster

    Foxster Section Hiker

    I've tried Nikwax and Granger to try to re-proof a few items and never found either that good. Seems that you'll never get as good WP back once it's gone.

    I'd say that anything that relies on a chemical treatment for WP is not going to last. What seems to work is gear that is inherently WP like, say, an Alpkit Balance jacket.
  14. Enzo

    Enzo Thru Hiker

    I think all the conventional wpb fabrics rely on a dwr coatings to be both waterproof and breathable.
    Gortex lasts me a year at work.
    It's why I use paramo, cheaper.
  15. Stuart f

    Stuart f Summit Camper

    Why that particular jacket?
  16. Foxster

    Foxster Section Hiker

    I'm not sure how to describe it...

    Unlike a few other jackets I've had, its as waterproof as a solid non-breathable shell and yet it is very breathable. It's not made of the woven-looking material that needs to be re-waterproofed.

    I've had this jacket for a couple of years and just love it to bits. I've worn it for lots of wild camps, when I go running in the winter, on trips abroad...and yet its solidly built and still looks almost new.

    i.e. It's a keeper.
  17. Stuart f

    Stuart f Summit Camper

    Interesting. Only a 20mm hydrostatic Head but performing that well.
    Cheap enough to investigate further if mine can’t be rescued
    I have found an old post re rescuing a jacket consisting of washing twice in soft soap, washing again in tech wash ( with an hours pause mid cycle), rinsing again, drip drying and then when almost dry, 15 mins on low heat in the dryer.
    Long winded, but worth a go
    It may well be that my jacket is like my new staircase carpet that’s been down 12 years...... not so new anymore.
  18. Foxster

    Foxster Section Hiker

    I tried something a bit like that plus a Nikwax TX.Direct cycle with a smock jacket I was trying to get to bead water again, like it did when new. Didn't work and it's now my go-to-Tesco-Metro-jacket.
  19. Stuart f

    Stuart f Summit Camper

  20. PhilHo

    PhilHo Thru Hiker

    This got my attention so I went to look on the Alpkit site and it still says for that jacket "To keep your jacket beading, you’ll probably need to top up the DWR once or twice a year using a Grangers or Nikwax re-proofer."

    It does look like a really good 355g size large, only £140 at the moment, rain jacket. If my OMM Aether doesn't live up to expectations, long term, I recon I'd definitely consider one. Their Gravitas that @Robin just bought, 180g, same price at the moment, also looks good.
    Foxster and Robin like this.
  21. Foxster

    Foxster Section Hiker

    I can only say that I've not done mine at all and it's been around the block a couple times now.

    It does have a kind of inner mesh lining and I wonder if anything that might get through the outer gets handled there.

    I looked at the Gravitas but that's a different sort of jacket, very light and packable. The Balance's clue is in the name, it's tougher and designed for harder use and likely will last longer - at the expense of some extra weight of course. Horses for courses.

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