West Highland Way Late April - Kit advice please

Odd Man

Thru Hiker
Critical?
I've mainly just walked.. do a bit of core stuff and yoga these days, but walking into fitness has always been effective...
Mileage. Camping out.
.....so far

It depends on the person. People who do yoga, long distance running, endurance sports etc have slowly regenerating fascial (connective) tissue making them flexible and quite light on their feet and that's why they are drawn to those sports. If these people easily sprain their ankles, knees, or other joints, it's because of 'lax' tissue and they need to build the muscle around the joints to build more control of the range of movement. The goal is not to be super flexible but have a control over the full range joint's motion.

People like me, whose fascia regenerates quicker, makes them stiffer but also more suitable to power sports like sprinting, powerlifting, shorter bursts efforts. I can walk on the flat 20k no issues, but when needing more end range strength, like on the ascends, then I'm fighting against my stiff tissue. It feels like I'm trying to walk long miles wearing a wetsuit. I need to mobilise my tissue (to loosen it up and thus) to increase the joints' ROM and then build up strength to keep me going. My muscle tissue is about 63% Type II, which makes me not a very good endurance/distance walker, but I can over time train the muscles to work more like Type I.

There are some lucky ba5tards who are 50/50 and genetically very gifted and can do most. There's a great competition video on YouTube on Spartan Games website, where they had a multiday event in strength, skill and endurance and had participants from all sorts from Crossfit, NFL, triathlon to Endurance athletes. Crossfit guys were dominant in weight & metcon events, while the 5x Ultra world champ couldn't even finish the reps with weights. As for the 5h trail run, you can probably guess what happened.

It all comes down to personal physiology, bio-individuality. What works for me, doesn't necessarily work for you. Everyone needs to find what works for them. However, everyone benefits from some amount of strength training as certain amount muscles will reduce injuries, improve stability and ability, strength training also reduces sarcopenia, hence keeping metabolism going better and strengthens bones and reduce osteoporosis in the long run.
 
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WilliamC

Thru Hiker
It depends on the person. People who do yoga, long distance running, endurance sports etc have slowly regenerating fascial (connective) tissue making them flexible and quite light on their feet and that's why they are drawn to those sports. If these people easily sprain their ankles, knees, or other joints, it's because of 'lax' tissue and they need to build the muscle around the joints to build more control of the range of movement. The goal is not to be super flexible but have a control over the full range joint's motion.

People like me, whose fascia regenerates quicker, makes them stiffer but also more suitable to power sports like sprinting, powerlifting, shorter bursts efforts. I can walk on the flat 20k no issues, but when needing more end range strength, like on the ascends, then I'm fighting against my stiff tissue. It feels like I'm trying to walk long miles wearing a wetsuit. I need to mobilise my tissue (to loosen it up and thus) to increase the joints' ROM and then build up strength to keep me going. My muscle tissue is about 63% Type II, which makes me not a very good endurance/distance walker, but I can over time train the muscles to work more like Type I.
So doesn't this mean that those tending to type 1 muscle should be looking at strengthening exercises (squats, deadlifts etc.) while those tending to type 2 should be building stamina (going out for a long walk etc.)?
I assume that I tend towards type 2 muscle (100m, 400m and long-jump athlete at school, not so good at the cross-country runs); recent experience has shown me that strength exercises at home might make me feel a bit more powerful on a steep ascent but did little to reduce fatigue at the end of the day. After getting in 30+km/1,000+m ascent walks at least once a week over the past five weeks has greatly lessened the fatigue.
 

Odd Man

Thru Hiker
So doesn't this mean that those tending to type 1 muscle should be looking at strengthening exercises (squats, deadlifts etc.) while those tending to type 2 should be building stamina (going out for a long walk etc.)?
I assume that I tend towards type 2 muscle (100m, 400m and long-jump athlete at school, not so good at the cross-country runs); recent experience has shown me that strength exercises at home might make me feel a bit more powerful on a steep ascent but did little to reduce fatigue at the end of the day. After getting in 30+km/1,000+m ascent walks at least once a week over the past five weeks has greatly lessened the fatigue.

Yes, that exactly what it means. We tend to steer towards the activity that is easy for us. Flexible people like yoga for example, because it's easy for them, but would benefit from strength training, especially since yoga doesn't have any pulling movements.

Power athletes benefit from mobility work and like you said building stamina (by adapting to use more of the kinetic energy created by movement (see last paragraph)).

Now I don't know enough about the combinations of the muscle fibre and the fascia regeneration speeds and if they correlate or how do the combinations affect the outcomes. I haven't seen any kind of research on it. What I do know is, that myofascial cells work quite simply with a very specific principle. They respond to demand and need.

I've had some obese clients on my table. Calves are the stability muscles of the body. When an obese person walks and moves, calves need to be strong. However, if the person does not build up the muscles in the calves to support the extra load, then the connective tissue starts to build up, thus creating passive stability. Sounds good, but unfortunately it isn't. What we need is active stability created by enough muscle mass and strength to be able to control the range of movement. This is mobility (flexibility + active stability). Tissue build up creates passive stability can lead to issues such as neuropathy or shin splints when the person decides to get active. Same principle works with weight training. Moving weights creates a demand in muscle cells to produce more cells to be able to manage the load better. This means that if we consistently do something in an organised manner, we can change the genetic predisposition of our muscle fibres over time.

This is why thru-hikers tend to lose upper body muscle mass, and get very good at walking. Efficient walking is a combination of little bit of muscle energy but it's mostly kinetic energy stored and released in connective tissue. Efficient walkers, when reaching the right pace only use about 30% of muscle energy and rest of it is virtually free energy. This kinetic load and release is the reason why we can go for a 10k walk on the flat pretty easily, but if we wander around town or museum for the same distance, we tend to get tired as we won't be able to utilise the kinetic energy and rely much more on muscle energy.
 

Odd Man

Thru Hiker
I'm just continuing my thought process here, so it's all pure speculation, but please entertain me.

Someone with more muscle fibre type 2 and stiff fascia, can move bigger loads, but shorter distances. This is because of the combination of power and earlier activation of the kinetic energy in fascia. This also results to benefit more of the kinetic energy on flat, whereas going uphill would push the fascia stretch to its limits, making the climb use more muscle energy. (I'm very much this person).

Some people with more muscle fibre type 1 (slow stitch muscle) and softer fascia have less power, but more endurance. When walking on flat, they use more of their muscle energy as they have the slow stitch endurance, but when going up the hill is when they start to utilise more of the kinetic energy, as they need to use bigger movements to store kinetic energy in their softer fascia. This makes uphill walking easier for them as they get an extra boost. Some might find going down a hill more of a challenge, as they don't have the stability of the stiff fascia or sometimes the active stability of muscle strength to control the step down.

Like I said, I don't know how scientifically viable this is, but I did reach out to a friend of mine who's the author of Born To Walk and an anatomy and movement teacher, James Earls, asking about this. Hopefully he'll have more insight in this.
 
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Rog Tallbloke

Thru Hiker
Worth me looking at ignored content.... 
Still charismatic as ever and bagging miles. Wasn't it you who was towing at the prospect of a small amount of elevation gain on a TL meet a couple of years back? :whistling:
I was slow moving uphill. You, @Shewie and @Teepee zoomed on ahead to look for some TL'ers who never made it up the hill at all. I loafed around near the top of Kidsty Pike taking photos until you got back.
Last mile-bagging trip for me was walking from Hartlepool to London in 2019.
 
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SteG

Thru Hiker
Surly you have to just work up to a long distance walk gradually by building up your miles? William said
recent experience has shown me that strength exercises at home might make me feel a bit more powerful on a steep ascent but did little to reduce fatigue at the end of the day.
That rings so true to me. Nothing has prepared me for the activities/sports I've done than doing that activity/sport on a regular basis.
Simple boxing analogy
If you want to box for four rounds, you will have needed to have box for four rounds on a regular basis. Strength work, bag work and time running will obviously help, but there is no substitute, than sparring for four rounds, because the other exercises won't help you stop feeling fatigued.
If I'm cycling I've got to build it up slowly from day one and steadily build up to stop the fatigue setting in.
Same goes for walking, I've got to keep it up, get the inclines in, keep my body used to it, long walks on weekends ect.
I've got a friend who was a competitive long distance runner/postman who gave up and started walking the hills. He couldn't believe how knackered he was because he was so fit, but soon adapted.
I know I'm putting this in very simple terms, but I wonder if there's a danger that we can over think it. I think science is great, for optimising performance, but nothing substitutes like hard work, consistency and just enjoying it, other wise it's just to much of a chore.
 

Odd Man

Thru Hiker
Surly you have to just work up to a long distance walk gradually by building up your miles? William said
recent experience has shown me that strength exercises at home might make me feel a bit more powerful on a steep ascent but did little to reduce fatigue at the end of the day.
That rings so true to me. Nothing has prepared me for the activities/sports I've done than doing that activity/sport on a regular basis.

I never said that one can omit from walking when training for walking, albeit it might appear that way. Definitely the main sport one is training for is the one that needs to be done most frequently.

There are few things to take into consideration. If you're reasonably healthy and fit, without underlying issues, it's pretty straight forward to pick up a sport and start building gradually towards it. However, if there is a history of sprains, shin splints, metabolic syndrome, then often just doing to sport is not enough to enjoy it risk free. With sprains and strains, the joints are not supported well enough by connective tissue, so muscle needs to be built up to support them. Shin splints are often caused by muscles growing/swelling and fascial tissue not growing at the same speed thus being overly tight around the muscles causing pain. With metabolic syndrome, you need to slowly start pushing the mitochondria to multiply and work more efficiently to improve cellular energy production & utilisation.

Simple boxing analogy
If you want to box for four rounds, you will have needed to have box for four rounds on a regular basis. Strength work, bag work and time running will obviously help, but there is no substitute, than sparring for four rounds, because the other exercises won't help you stop feeling fatigued.

Running will surely help you stop feeling fatigued, that's why boxers do it. It also helps build up the cardiovascular conditioning, which is vital for being able to take a hit. Better and more efficient your vascular system is, quicker you recover from different things.

Strength training especially builds up capillaries at the outer perimeter of muscles which make the muscles work more optimised and using less energy when the oxygen and energy is flowing easily and more freely. It also increases the mitochondria and makes the body more efficient in energy production.

If I'm cycling I've got to build it up slowly from day one and steadily build up to stop the fatigue setting in.
Same goes for walking, I've got to keep it up, get the inclines in, keep my body used to it, long walks on weekends ect.
I've got a friend who was a competitive long distance runner/postman who gave up and started walking the hills. He couldn't believe how knackered he was because he was so fit, but soon adapted.
I know I'm putting this in very simple terms, but I wonder if there's a danger that we can over think it. I think science is great, for optimising performance, but nothing substitutes like hard work, consistency and just enjoying it, other wise it's just to much of a chore.

As I wrote in the previous post, if you build up your end range strength, the hills will be easier, up and down, because on day to day basis we tend to mostly use the midrange of our muscles. This is why this training will help in the long run, or should I say walk, when you get tired and your muscles are inflamed, and swollen up, filled with lactic acid, you can keep going better when you have that end range strength.

Your mate is a perfect example of this adaptation. Running and walking are very different movement bio-mechanically. The GPP (general physical preparedness) carries over well, but the kinetic energy systems are different. Even if your mate was running up hills, it's still a different movement to walking up hills. As a postie, he didn't need to use his end range strength of his leg muscles, as he was walking mostly on flat, even the hills are flat, they are just on an angle. He was knackered because he started using his full range of muscles more on stepping up while going hillwalking.

If you want to walk better, walk more. That goes without saying. However, everyone, regardless of the activity, benefit from having full range mobility (flexibility + strength/stability) . Most chronic soft tissue issues I see on my clinic are due to poor posture/alignment putting strain on some area or lack of mobility, which loads up the wrong area for the movement (ankle stiffness loads up the knees and/or hips too much etc).

I absolutely agree with you about the consistency and I think I mentioned in my earlier posts, that consistent effort in something makes the body adapt to that particular requirement. However, we still need the body to able to perform many other tasks too, which is why focusing on one thing too much can start causing issue while performing completely normal tasks. Some bodybuilders are unable to tie their own shoelaces due to lack of mobility. In the Spartan games, I mentioned earlier, the multiple ultra runner was unable to complete a workout of lifting some 20kg weight x amount times because his body had shed all the extra tissue to minimise the effort the muscles need to work to cover such long distances. And don't get me started on lack of progressions in training... :D
 

SteG

Thru Hiker
Josh Naylor was asked about his training for fell running races and what he eat during his runs. He favoured forest road runs, egg sandwiches and blackcurrant juice with a little added salt.
 

Scottk

Trail Blazer
Josh Naylor was asked about his training for fell running races and what he eat during his runs. He favoured forest road runs, egg sandwiches and blackcurrant juice with a little added salt.
But remember, Josh Naylor was a hill sheep farmer, so probably had a bit of a head start!
 

rikdon

Summit Camper
Remind me never to ask kit advice for the WHW


But if its training regimes I use the highly regarded 70/30 system

70% red wine, blue cheese & camembert with 30% just throwing a bag on and walking somewhere, when I get tired I stop, if I don't get tired I walk a bit more
That sounds complicated. Could you elaborate. Please bear in mind I may only have 20 years to live
 

Shewie

Chief Slackpacker
Staff member
I saw Joss Naylor taking route A straight down the side of Yewbarrow a few years ago when I was on my ML course, nothing but a wooden stick and some very flexible knees, no paths just making a beeline through heather and over rocks. We passed through his farm a few hours later and he was wrestling some sheep into the back of a Land Rover with a brew in one hand.
 

Ed the Ted

Ultralighter
I know I'm putting this in very simple terms, but I wonder if there's a danger that we can over think it. I think science is great, for optimising performance, but nothing substitutes like hard work, consistency and just enjoying it, other wise it's just to much of a chore.

I agree with this, weight training is an efficient supplement but can't override miles. I went for a long romp yesterday and the tops of my calves at the front are sore and my calves at the back, never get such conditioning from anything else. But still, being a skinny trip of proverbial, it's nice to feel a bit of strength in my legs, more on descents than ascents, I feel like it reduces impact on my joints a lot.

It all gets very boring when it becomes 'training and performance' rather than nice experiences in nice places doesnt it.
 

dovidola

Thru Hiker
@Ed the Ted quite so. The beauty of UK hiking is that you can do as much or as little as you like. So if, like me, you aren't trying to smash records, achieve personal bests, beat a target time, etc, you can just take it as it comes, at a rate you're comfortable with, using the contents of your pack together with your accumulated experience and know-how to rest, refuel and recuperate as you go. I appreciate this probably doesn't work for the more competitive and athletic types out there but it means that beyond being reasonably 'sensible' with ongoing weight/diet/exercise/wellbeing, I can remain in blissful ignorance of the science.
 

Rob Mac

Summit Camper
@Chris Wilkes OP - how are the plans going for the WHW? Are you still on track or C19 getting in the way? My original plan was TGO Challenge but it was postponed to dates I cannot do. So I am doing the WHW then the Great Glen Way during last 2 weeks of may. I have appreciated the tips of which pubs are on the route as I expect I will be frequenting a few! ;)

In terms of being supple and bendy for long distance and stiff and inflexible for short burst of speed etc - I must be an anomaly. I am very inflexible (cannot sit crossed legs for more than a minute!) but defo prefer the longer distances. Slow horses for long courses I suppose!
 

TinTin

Thru Hiker
@Chris Wilkes OP - how are the plans going for the WHW? Are you still on track or C19 getting in the way? My original plan was TGO Challenge but it was postponed to dates I cannot do. So I am doing the WHW then the Great Glen Way during last 2 weeks of may. I have appreciated the tips of which pubs are on the route as I expect I will be frequenting a few! ;)

In terms of being supple and bendy for long distance and stiff and inflexible for short burst of speed etc - I must be an anomaly. I am very inflexible (cannot sit crossed legs for more than a minute!) but defo prefer the longer distances. Slow horses for long courses I suppose!
I'd like to encourage you, as others did me, to branch out, don't bother with the WHW and GGW and plan your own route. Much better adventure and better wild camping spots.
 

Rob Mac

Summit Camper
I'd like to encourage you, as others did me, to branch out, don't bother with the WHW and GGW and plan your own route. Much better adventure and better wild camping spots.

I agree - I have a firm starting point and date from Glasgow and then have 12 days to get to Inverness. Apart from a bunkhouse booking in FW I have no other deadlines or firmly prearranged stops. So I may well take different routes as I progress North. However, having been limited to circular walks to and from my front door (and I live miles from any big hills) I will be very content with the WHW and GGW! Fingers crossed the trip is still possible.
 

Wilko

Trekker
@Chris Wilkes OP - how are the plans going for the WHW? Are you still on track or C19 getting in the way? My original plan was TGO Challenge but it was postponed to dates I cannot do. So I am doing the WHW then the Great Glen Way during last 2 weeks of may. I have appreciated the tips of which pubs are on the route as I expect I will be frequenting a few!

Hi @Rob Mac thanks for asking. Change of plans for me. I’m aiming to do a section of the South West Coast Path (Lands End to Falmouth ish late April due to it tying in with a trip down South with the family. Just trying to get my head around logistics given the restrictions.

Hope to get up to Scotland at some point in the not to distant future. If this trip goes well maybe I’ll be a bit more adventurous when I head up there. I’ve bought a copy of “Not the West Highland Way” for inspiration.

Look forward to hearing a report on your trip in May.
 

Michael_x

Section Hiker
Hi @Rob Mac thanks for asking. Change of plans for me. I’m aiming to do a section of the South West Coast Path (Lands End to Falmouth ish late April due to it tying in with a trip down South with the family. Just trying to get my head around logistics given the restrictions.

Hope to get up to Scotland at some point in the not to distant future. If this trip goes well maybe I’ll be a bit more adventurous when I head up there. I’ve bought a copy of “Not the West Highland Way” for inspiration.

Look forward to hearing a report on your trip in May.
Hadn't come across "Not the West Highland Way". Sounds interesting so I've ordered a used copy. Thanks.
 
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