Winter down jacket?

Discussion in 'Clothing & Footwear' started by Stuart f, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. Stuart f

    Stuart f Summit Camper

    Currently using a ME fitroy when static but feeling the chill below zero. It’s also heavy at 600g Considering getting a very lightweight 900+ down jacket to replace it.
    Looking for any pointers to what’s half decent at sub £300 thanks

    Stu
  2. el manana

    el manana Thru Hiker

    PHD would be the benchmark
  3. Shewie

    Shewie Administrator Staff Member

    I’ve been admiring the Rab Zero G in the shops in Chamonix this week, not sure of the figures but they look and feel really nice.

    Also another vote for PHD, love my Ultra pullover
    Chiseller likes this.
  4. Noltae

    Noltae Summit Camper

    I have the Zero G - Best down hoody I've ever bought - The quality is amazing - Mid - Weight warmth in a lightweight jacket.
    Shewie likes this.
  5. Chiseller

    Chiseller Thru Hiker

    I love my Norrona Bithorn UL superdown 900 140g - ish toasty and comfy. Its only downfall is not having a draw synch hem... I'd love it to have a hood too.
  6. WilliamC

    WilliamC Thru Hiker

    I'm not sure that PHD do anything that fits the OP's requirements at under £300. Perhaps when they have a sale on.
    The Cumulus Neolite Endurance looks warm (proper baffles) at under £300 (pre-Brexit).
  7. Cranston

    Cranston Thru Hiker

    I have a Cumulus Primelight (too light for you probably) and the quality is equal to my Nunatak jacket. Layer it?
    Or I might go the next level Cumulus Incredilite Endurance or Neolite Endurance any day now, knowing the quality.
    For myself, I know it may ruffle a few feathers -Bazinga- I would not buy a product where the amount of down is not stated. Also the PHd claim of 1000fp down. Hasn't that been discredited? I suppose all that matters is that it works but...
    Also have been beating the hell out of a Cumulus Climalite-excellent bit of kit.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
    Teepee likes this.
  8. Bob-W

    Bob-W Trail Blazer

    As has been mentioned on other threads about down products - the price of down seems to have rocketed in recent years, six years ago I got a decent down jacket for £80, the same jacket is now £200.

    900fp down is going to be pricey no matter who you get it from.

    PHD tend to have two sales a year - I don't think I've bought any of their kit outside a sale - currently there's a zero rated jacket at £239 https://www.phdesigns.co.uk/wafer-down-jacket-mountain-marathon-collection-2019 (+£32 for the hood :rolleyes:) I've a lightweight PHD jacket which is fine at zero if you are moving around a little, i.e. not fully "active" but not just sitting around. I've also a PHD Yukon jacket (got it as a present for a significant birthday) but it's not been cold enough to warrant wearing it yet!

    If you don't mind a lower fill power then there's the Alpkit Filo. If the Cumulus jackets are as good as their quilts then they'll be a good option.
  9. craige

    craige Thru Hiker

    Berghaus ramche Mircro is worth a look, or if you want something warmer the Ramche 2.0. Pretty good down to total weight ratio and the have some kind if reflective mesh which also boosts warmth.
    WilliamC likes this.
  10. Balagan

    Balagan Thru Hiker

    Montbell Alpine Down Jacket or Parka. I have the former and it is a proper oven. 400 gr in size L with apparently 180 gr of 800 CUIN down (Montbell Japan doesn't advertise fill weights). That is a Japanese market model (so a lot harder to get hold of) which has proper baffles, not to be confused with the US/EU Alpine Light Down Jacket which is sewn through.

    Well warm and excellent value for money as the regular price is around £150.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
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  11. WilliamC

    WilliamC Thru Hiker

    I have the Ramche Micro, and it's very warm for the weight. Although every description I've read of it says that it has sewn-through baffles, the baffles in the body of the jacket are offset, which adds to the warmth.
  12. Balagan

    Balagan Thru Hiker

    Duh! I missed the "ultralight" bit in the original post. For this I also have a sewn-though Montbell Ultra-Light Down Jacket which, at 220 gr, is a fair bit lighter than a similar size Uniqlo jacket but uch, much warmer.

    [​IMG]
  13. benp1

    benp1 Trail Blazer

    the Norrona bitihorn is often in their outlet, on the Norrona website, and it's usually well priced. I've avoided it as it doesn't have a hood. Warm jackets really need a hood in my view
  14. Stuart f

    Stuart f Summit Camper

    Some great suggestions folks. Will be doing some homework later. I do prefer a hood but if the weight is low and the warmth is right then I’m prepared to sacrifice it . I’d seen the Rab zero g being talked about before and for it’s incredibly low weight it looks awesome. Just a little to heavy a price tag at £350. Might be convinced though if cheaper options don’t come close
  15. Enzo

    Enzo Thru Hiker

    Totally off topic, but I got an alpkit filo a few years ago. Not worn it once, never been cold enough down here. Perhaps a good reason to get to somewhere more Nordic!!
    Chiseller likes this.
  16. Robin

    Robin Moderator Staff Member

    Stuart f and el manana like this.
  17. Stuart f

    Stuart f Summit Camper

    Ultra jackets at that price will be hard to beat really ......alarm set for November 4th
    edh and el manana like this.
  18. Chiseller

    Chiseller Thru Hiker

    Prices are crackers... Sale or no sale... I agree it will outlast apex.... But can't see it out performing it for similar weights?
  19. Bob-W

    Bob-W Trail Blazer

    My lightweight PHD jacket is a "Summerlight", which I think is one of their "Sale only" models such that you can't really compare it with anything. 175g with hood and it was OK last night when we went out for a bivy and it was around 2C and we were just sat around before turning in for the night. I'd a thin merino long sleeved top under it.

    @Chiseller - are you wondering about Apex outperforming down weight for weight or down outperforming Apex? It's not clear from how you've written it.

    One "problem" I have with synthetic fills is that by the time any particular one gets to the end of its life there's already another version that's taken over so you don't get longevity reports as everyone moves on to the latest and greatest and you get "it applies to an old filling and so isn't relevant to this one". A quick search throws up this thread: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/down-vs-climashield-apex-loft-question/ which seems to indicate that down is approximately three times as good as Apex at insulating (measurable?) and has between five and ten times the lifetime (anecdotal). That's for sleeping bags so the lifetime figures will be different for jackets.

    Even so there are situations where I'd choose Apex over down: an overquilt for sleeping in cold temps where the dew point falls within your sleeping system; active wear at or just above freezing when it's raining/sleeting.
  20. Enzo

    Enzo Thru Hiker

    I've heard the best synthetic is about 600fp equivalent. Not needing baffling would help that compared to sewn through down jackets of course.
    I'm liking Alpha plus windshirt instead of thin down jacket ATM.
    Primaloft jacket for real cold though, but down still has it for pack size imho, I'm keeping my old school ghost whisperer!
  21. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    I have a Yukon - I save it for proper cold (mountain top in snowy winter conditions). Highly recommend. Wait for the sale.
    A hood is important in a jacket for winter use.
    Rab quality used to be top notch but going by my recent brush with some items, including a down sleeping bag, I don't rate their stuff anymore.
    Robin likes this.
  22. Chiseller

    Chiseller Thru Hiker

    @Bob-W I was of the mind (which means I'm usually wrong) that apex was as warm as down weight for weight.
    I'm aware synthetics lose some of their insulative properties over time. Synthetic jackets ( referring to filled ones NOT PILE PERTEX ONES) (not shouting) take more of a hit by being compressed /folded etc.
    If I sleep in my down jacket, I have to over layer it with my windshell as protection from rubbing against the shelter inner on a morning when it's frozen or has a large amount of condensation due to humidity or clag.
    Don't get me wrong... Some down garments have a resiliant outer that will cope with a shoulder rub etc again a shelter...

    My old BPL apex summer quilt is doing remarkably well in keeping it insulative properties and I had an arrowhead quilt which was ridiculously warm for its weight.
  23. Cranston

    Cranston Thru Hiker

    Do you have the heavy 150gms/m Apex in your quilt?
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  24. Diddi

    Diddi Thru Hiker

    Sportspursuit :thumbsup:
  25. Nevis

    Nevis Section Hiker

    Bought a Crux Pyro last year in the sale for this winter.... so far it’s waaay too warm. Not sure of the specs as it’s not to hand to check.

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