Discussion in 'Clothing & Footwear' started by Stuart f, Oct 29, 2019.
I can't recall which model it is. I think it's 90gms?
The Cumulus Incredulite jacket, has served me well for 5yrs+ for backpacking at temps down to approaching -10C, not too heavy at ~350g.
Also have the Rab Generator smock, older model which I think it has 100 Primaloft in the body & 60 in the arms. Not as warm as the Cumulus jacket, doesn't have a hood & slightly heavier, ~380g.
My 30 year old ME Annapurna jacket is still going strong & warmer but rarely gets an outing as it's more than double the weight.
I think I’ll wait to see what the PHD sale reveals and then decide between the Yukon ( possibly too warm) ultra jacket ( warm enough but no hood) or the other favourite The cumulus incredulite endurance.....
I'd rather be a bit too warm than too cold.
The Yukon is awesomely warm. You can have a hood with the Ultra if you select it.
Now I’m even more confused. T may come down to shedding grams t the end of it as the Yukon won’t save me much weight on my ME fitroy really.
My PHD Minimus jacket is warm enough most of the time. I imagine the Ultra will be similar.
It’s probably down to the ultra with a hood in the sale i the cumulus ( if I can squeeze my 8” chest into a medium as no large available on their site)
Did you ask when the next batch were up?
Not mentioned it yet but will email them about the cut of the Incredilte and my measurements to get their take on it too
I have a PHD Yukon I bought in last year's sale... With patch pocket and HS2 outer fabric. Lovely warm, lightweight, and packs down well.
If i was ordering i wouldnt get a hood. The only time i use one is when active/walking in windy/wet conditions. If i was static i may be using my down hat, but i would only be stopping if the weather dictated i.e just cold, if i felt i needed a hood when static to keep out the elements, i wouldnt be stopping for long.
I would go for the smock (I have a PHD Minimus, warmest jacket I've owned), i only need a full length zip on active wear for better ventilation, and a PHD down hat or Black Rock gear so i can use it to sleep in.
Regular full winter walkers may disagree, but my down gear is used 90% in camp. Depends how you expect to use it i guess.
The PHD removable hoods give you the best of both worlds. I don’t walk in down jackets either, I prefer synthetic for walking.
So what’s the differences between the minimus and the ultra?
I wouldn't have a winter down jacket without a hood again. They add a large amount of warmth compared to a seperate hat. A large amount of heat is lost from the neck and head and hoods are far more effective at keeping that warmth inside. I also sleep in quilts and in my jackets; not having a hood doesn't work well for me.
A few of my jackets have removable hoods, it's noticable when they are worn as a hat and not attached, even though the gap between them is quite small. My down pullover gets twinned with a down hood from another jacket for sleeping in, also gets worn under a windproof with the pullover at night.
It's always noticable when a windproof is donned over a warm top and hat, you can feel all that warmth rising up your neck and not being lost.
I thought the Ultra was lighter with higher spec down and a lot more expensive...but the website doesnt reflect that...
You might do slightly harsher winter walking than me...
I'm with @Teepee on having a hood.
If you use your down jacket to keep warm at stops a hood (over hat) is kind of essential IMHO especially in cold (snowy ?) and windy conditions.
A cold draft down your neck is pretty unpleasant.
Don't think I've ever walked further than from the campsite to the pub in a down or synthetic insulated jacket, mine are reserved for around camp...….don't even bother for 'stops'; they're usually shorter than the time taken to dig one out of the pack.
I agree with the @Teepee on hoods though, far more cosy especially combined with the Black Rock beanie.
I need a decent food stop (lunch) during the day - I kind of grind to a halt otherwise . And putting an extra layer on is a must in the cold.
Each time I wear a down coat I always have that slight awareness of not wanting it to get wet/damp. Doesn't bother me for my quilt/bag as it's always more protected. I have a couple of PHD down vests and I rarely wear them as I worry about them getting wet. My winter camping is in the southern half of the UK normally so it's rarely reliably cold enough to snow rather than rain. Where there's no chance of rain then I can completely see the benefit (although in lapland as xmas I was in a mix of down, synthetic and buffalo)
Me too - worried about brushing against the condensation laden tent walls with my precious down jacket.
Thought about a Nunatak synthetic but price put me off and I seem to have found a cheaper and much more flexible solution for 3 season camping.
I overlayer my PHD Ultra smock with a very large (for me) Berghaus Hypertherm = 2 layers for under 500gms - lots of options and flexibility.
In summer I'd do the same but replace the smock with a down vest.
Tha Yukon only comes out in serious below freezing, when I'm unlikely to be camping.
PS. I don't wear down when walking - just when stationary in camp.
I generally use Paramo plus a fleece to walk in. If I needed to, I prefer to walk in a synthetic jacket than down.
It has to be seriously cold to consider wearing a down jacket when active and even then it's activity where you aren't going to sweat much which is obviously dependent upon temperature and activity, something like high altitude mountaineering. Other than that I'd only use down jackets around camp or walking from there to the pub and back, that sort of level of effort.
Occasional contact with a damp surface isn't a problem for quality down clothing, even a bit of light rain doesn't get the down wet, but you do need to brush/mop off any remaining surface water. It's longer, more persistent, contact with moisture that really causes trouble. Generally using down when it's above freezing requires care and attention rather than fear and panic.
I'd go with a hood and jacket rather than smock - a lot easier to put on/take off when in a tent.
I generally walk in wearing a merino base, arcteryx atom lt if it’s above freezing with a wind shell if blowy or an arcteryx proton AR when it’s really cold. They both breathe incredibly well. The down jacket I need is solely for sitting in the tent and cooking, nothing else. still think it’s between the PHD ultra jacket with hood and the cumulus incredulite endurance which looks as warm, has a hood and is £50 cheaper than the sale price PhD . But if anyone can argue that the PHD is far better then I’ll happily spend the money as I hate buying twice.
Thanks for the great comments that I really appreciate on here guys. Invaluable advice
I also count on my down hoody for extra warmth in the sleeping bag/quilt when needed. I have a Decathlon cheapy, which is great 3-season, but following this thread with interest as I'd like something warmer for this winter.
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