Experts ... Scotland : tent or bivi?

[CleanSimon]

From UK, camped in the lakes, wales, dales, south west and seen many types of wind and rain in many seasons, but i understand Scotland is more tempestuous and certainly not consistently hammock friendly.
so far it seems the main downside to having a hooped bivy over a tiny UL tent is that i dont have an overhang to cook under, i can live with that, because im worried a UL tent will rattle itself to pieces.
any Scots want to wade in?

 

[cathyjc]

Hammocks in Scotland limit you - a lot - mostly lower ground in the Cairngorms or other lowland.

I don't bivy - so not an expert.
But if your trip is more than a few days and you cannot choose your weather I would imagine a bivy could be really "grim". A small tarp might sort the cooking in rain ?

Any shelter/bivy/tent needs to be OK in wind - it just does. Sheltered spots are not always available .

June to Sept. THERE WILL BE MIDGES - unless there's some wind - and that's not guaranteed.
Almost every time I go camping in July/August - I regret it and make a mental note not to camp in Scotland in high summer - and then promptly forget the next year .
Midges protection really requires full zip up capability - a bivy could be very very grim.

 

[OwenM]

In a bivi you can lay on your back, front, left or right side and that's about it. To pack you'll need to get out, in a tent you can get everything except the tent packed before getting out. Keeping things like sleeping bags dry. When it rains for days on end you still have to get out of your bivi to cook. In a tent you can do it under the fly.
You can't sit up in a bivi, when you've dived in there to escape the midgies all you can do is lay there. Gets real uncomfortable very quickly.

 

[CleanSimon]

Thanks both, tent it is! whats the best time to aim for between heavy weather and high midge season?

 

[Rog Tallbloke]

Nice big roomy tipi style flysheet with midge-proof mesh sewn all round the perimeter. Get a proper pole for it.

 

[Jamess]

April is good with more stable weather conditions as is mid September to mid October.

The midge population starts to rise once the last frost's have gone and dies off once the first frost's arrive.

June-August is peak midge season.

 

[OwenM]

Thanks both, tent it is! whats the best time to aim for between heavy weather and high midge season?

April-May

 

[Robert P]

I won't claim to be an expert or from Scotland, but have done the majority of my wild camping in Scotland. And as context I've normally had to pre-determine the dates so I'll go and take whatever the weather happens to be at the time rather than picking and choosing; mainly April to September, but have done some winter camping including during the Beast from the East 2.0. Also I normally camp on summits and ridges, occasionally in the glens.
Personally I've only ever used tents and never felt the need to consider a bivi because of a tent not being up to the job. Fundamentally, I don't view Scotland that differently versus camping in England and Wales - just likely to be a bit more wind and rain/snow on average. In recent years I've mainly used fairly standard tents (Tarptent notch and X-Mid most of the time) and used a mid or Tramplite if expecting particularly strong winds, and with appropriate site selection never had a problem. During May-September rather than strong winds I am much more fearful of still conditions and the inevitable midges

 

[CleanSimon]

Everyone suggests that the midges are really the main evil for scotland. I know from camping in snowdonia the importance of a red light on your head torch and when the air is thick with them youre virtually breathing them, but are they that much worse in scotland that you need head nets and stuff? Does deet and premethrin not do much when youre in a cloud of sky raisins?

 

[Shewie]

It depends where you are, the west coast is pretty bad for them, as are the Cairngorms, Scotland is basically a big sponge and midges like that environment

DEET doesn't really have any effect on midges, permethrin is good for keeping ticks away.

I'd take a headnet and thin liner gloves, and pray for a high sun and a 5mph+ breeze

 

[CleanSimon]

Ok thanks very much, me and a friend are looking at doing WHW so sounds like april is the best time and ill get a net!

 

[Mole]

Ok thanks very much, me and a friend are looking at doing WHW so sounds like april is the best time and ill get a net!

You won't need a net in April. Or repellent.



We have used Smidge for years. I find it works pretty well but you need full coverage.
And there's a point where numbers if midges overwhelm . Then it's get under cover.

With using Smidge, in average midgey levels, have been sat out cooking whilst others nearby have needed head nets as whatever they were (or weren't) using wasn't repelling midges.

 

[Shewie]

Agree with Mole, I wouldn't bother too much if you're going in April

I have seen them quite thick at this time around the Argyll area but only at dawn and dusk

 

[fqjiopjq28fq]

When I did the West Highland Way it was like something out of a horror film with the midges at times. Smidge worked to some extent but the best thing to do was cover up including a head net.

Being stuck in a bivy with millions of midges trying to get in would be a nightmare. Even if it had proper bug mesh. No way.

 

[fqjiopjq28fq]

Everyone suggests that the midges are really the main evil for scotland. I know from camping in snowdonia the importance of a red light on your head torch and when the air is thick with them youre virtually breathing them, but are they that much worse in scotland that you need head nets and stuff? Does deet and premethrin not do much when youre in a cloud of sky raisins?

Yes, you absolutely need a head net.

I can't imagine not having one on the West Highland Way in midge season. If I didn't and for some reason couldn't acquire one I would have bailed.

 

[fqjiopjq28fq]

I'm not sure if you're looking for specific shelter advice, but if you are maybe take a look at this: https://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/shelters-1/WF129-138.html

I've not used it but it has been recommended to me on here. There are two main reasons why I think it's a good one for the WHW and Scotland in general: (1) It's basically a 2-person size shelter but when used by 1 person allows a huge vestibule. The thing about the WHW is you're basically fighting a losing battle against everything getting wet. Having a large vestibule to sort yourself and your kit out and minimise getting particularly your sleeping gear wet would be a great advantage. (2) It's an even-sided pointy hexagon shape with lots of guy-out points so good in the wind.

I did the WHW in a 3-person 3F UL tent with my gf. It had 2 entrances and the main area was big enough but it had small vestibules and there just wasn't enough space to get changed, get your rainjacket off, mess around etc, to keep the main area particuarly dry.

 

[DannyGeorge]

I won't claim to be an expert or from Scotland, but have done the majority of my wild camping in Scotland. And as context I've normally had to pre-determine the dates so I'll go and take whatever the weather happens to be at the time rather than picking and choosing; mainly April to September, but have done some winter camping including during the Beast from the East 2.0. Also I normally camp on summits and ridges, occasionally in the glens.
Personally I've only ever used tents and never felt the need to consider a bivi because of a tent not being up to the job. Fundamentally, I don't view Scotland that differently versus camping in England and Wales - just likely to be a bit more wind and rain/snow on average. In recent years I've mainly used fairly standard tents (Tarptent notch and X-Mid most of the time) and used a mid or Tramplite if expecting particularly strong winds, and with appropriate site selection never had a problem. During May-September rather than strong winds I am much more fearful of still conditions and the inevitable midges

What mid do you use for the windier conditions Robert? I'm looking for something to house me and my partner to camp high up and exposed whilst still being relatively livable. A Trailstar can fit two people but it isn't fun.

 

[Ed the Ted]

skin so soft dry moisturisers what i used when i lived in the highlands and worked in the woods, aka midge doom. And the midges are bigger in Scotland than in wales and england, ive always found. They dont always bite though but the crawling especially on the face it what sends people mad, so a net is a good idea.

 

[Mole]

I used to use Avon skin so soft. As soon as I discovered smidge I never went back. So much better.

 

[Robert P]

What mid do you use for the windier conditions Robert? I'm looking for something to house me and my partner to camp high up and exposed whilst still being relatively livable. A Trailstar can fit two people but it isn't fun.

I have only used small solo tents: MLD Solomid but now have a Tramplite Shelter. I've not used bigger pyramids but others will have plenty of experience

 

[Patrick]

Yes, you absolutely need a head net.
I can't imagine not having one on the West Highland Way in midge season.

But the key is "in midge season". April isn't.

And, incidentally, if the OP's question about tent / bivvy / hammock was specifically with reference to the WHW as well, then he might have got different answers to those above. I've never used one myself, but if your preference is actually hammock then I suspect you'd be fine with one on the WHW. The only bit where it would be difficult to find trees would be across Rannoch moor, but if you judged your camps so you weren't needing to stop in the middle of that section I think you'd probably be ok.

 

[CleanSimon]

Thanks very much all, i should have been a little more specific, but the info shared has been really valuable, thank you again

 

[Charlie83]

The only bit where it would be difficult to find trees would be across Rannoch moor, but if you judged your camps so you weren't needing to stop in the middle of that section I think you'd probably be ok.

Ba Bridge, about 500m off the track on the north side of the burn, The edge of the wood there is quite sparse before it goes all plantation, theres also a couple of wee woods before that, plantations but the one back at the wee loch would probably have a tree or two available

 

[Ed the Ted]

I used to use Avon skin so soft. As soon as I discovered smidge I never went back. So much better.

I have sensitive skin on my face and neck and something in smidge made me sting so much my eyes watered, like putting on moisturiser with alcohol in it after getting really sun burned. it was fierce. never tried it again!

 

[cathyjc]

Smidge may work .....hubby uses it but I prefer to just use a head net or hide in the tent.
I'm very good at squishing the beasts on the tent walls .
The biggest trial is trying to eat with a head net on .... .
Tha best technique is just to find a breeze .