Light, breathable waterproof?

M

Myles21

Section Hiker
Can any of you advise me please - I'm looking for suggestions for a quality, lightweight and breathable rain jacket for all year-round use. Just been reading the 'recommend a summer waterproof' thread and maybe most of what came up there applies to me too, I don't know. The only difference I can see is that as the weather gets cooler, the more layers I'd wear underneath the rain jacket. My rain layer doubles as a wind layer, so breathable is a must. And really does need to be waterproof. My present jacket failed me miserably last autumn, though I admit the goretex is past it's best.
So, something light that packs down well, but that really works in terms of breathability and waterproofness. Just to add that most of my hiking is 3 season, not so much in deepest, darkest winter.
 
Robin

Robin

Moderator
Staff member
I've been using the Marmot Essence jacket and over trousers (170g each), which I like. Very breathable but a bit delicate. Jacket is cut slightly small and the hood is OK rather than good. It's cheaper than the equivalent Rab Flashpoint jacket. Bear in mind that these thin jackets (and overtrousers) are not very durable because of the thinness of the fabric. If you want something more durable it will probably weigh 250g upwards.
 
Mole

Mole

Thru Hiker
Baldy said:
For a start don't wear your rain layer as a windlayer. Get a windproof. Only wear the rain jacket when it's raining :eek:.
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what He says.

From what I have seen, the lightest waterproofs longevity is not great.
I keep mine in a light stuff sac and only use it in the rain.

I have a 5year old Rab slipstream 290g which is still good.
I have observed my partner and friends similar jackets, and they just don't last physically. but they use them more and just stuff in an out of their pack or leave hung in a coat rack.

At an extreme, one of our older explorers has gone though 2 light waterproof jackets in 2 years. An ME gore active and a Montane minimus. both were worn daily raining or not and both leaked in prolonged rain after just 6months. you could see through parts of the fabric when held to the light.

for me, light jackets are for just in case rainwear only. if I expected to be wearing it all or most of the day, outwith summer, I'd take a heavier one for comfort and durability.
 
M

Myles21

Section Hiker
Hmmm, I was hoping to avoid getting two bits of kit instead of one. I guess the windproof layer takes the place of a fleece and is not in addition to one? I rather like my lightweight fleece and would be reluctant to ditch it. So you guys are basically saying a durable and slightly heavier rain jacket for rain (if I want it to last), plus a windproof layer of some kind for when it's not raining? Or a lightweight but not very durable rain layer plus windproof? So either way, you recommend the windproof? But I like my fleeeeeece (stomping of feet).
 
Mole

Mole

Thru Hiker
even in summer I take a light fleece and windshirt.
in cooler tines I just up my insulation layer and baselayer thickness . the fleece and windshirt stay the same.

I wear any combination of layers depending on situation. including occasionally fleece over the windshirt n base.
 
M

Myles21

Section Hiker
I think I'd prefer separate - partly as I really like my R1 hoodie and I'm generally ok for outer insulation layers. And tell me again, why not the rain jacket as a windproof? I mean, if I'm having to carry it anyway, why not let it earn its place in my pack by serving as a wind barrier too? Too heavy and hot? Is that a rain jacket is not so comfortable hike in? I'm really thinking of multiday hiking/camping where I'd always carry a rain jacket just in case. If you could recommend a rain jacket and while you're at it, a decent and reasonably priced windshirt, that'd be grand.
 
Mole

Mole

Thru Hiker
Why not wear a light waterproof as windshirt? As already stated.

1 Comfort. Waterproof has much less breathability and more warmth.

2 Durability. a decent waterproof costs. and lightweight 2.5 layer waterproof coating degrades over time with use. Wearing it less makes it last longer/ perform as intended. Conversely a windproof has no coating to degrade. dwr if required can be reapplied ad infinitum.

The only rain jackets I might wear all day if not raining are the heavier more durable types - Event, or Paramo. in my case - when it's cool and intermittently wet.

Some folk can wear less breathable jackets with comfort. we are all different. suck it and see.
 
Robin

Robin

Moderator
Staff member
Myles21 said:
I think I'd prefer separate - partly as I really like my R1 hoodie and I'm generally ok for outer insulation layers. And tell me again, why not the rain jacket as a windproof? I mean, if I'm having to carry it anyway, why not let it earn its place in my pack by serving as a wind barrier too? Too heavy and hot? Is that a rain jacket is not so comfortable hike in? I'm really thinking of multiday hiking/camping where I'd always carry a rain jacket just in case. If you could recommend a rain jacket and while you're at it, a decent and reasonably priced windshirt, that'd be grand.
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Two reasons not to wear a lightweight waterproof as a wind shirt: 1) they're not robust so they'll wear quite quickly, 2) even a really breathable lightweight waterproof like the Essence will be much more sweaty than a wind shirt

A Marmot Essence (170g) and something like the OMM Sonic smock (62g) weighs less than many "lightweight" waterproofs but gives you much more flexibility. The Essence is a good jacket (as I've already mentioned). I'd also look at the Rab Flashpoint (but have no experience of it). The OMM Sonic smock is one of the lightest windproof smocks. I don't have one, but have a Montane Featherlite smock, which is similar. The original Featherlite smock (which is what I have) is lighter than the current version and the new fabric seems to be less breathable. There are loads of windproofs on the market. Which one you choose is really down to personal preference, but it is worth going to a shop and trying a few on as the fit varies enormously. Not a bad idea to do the same for waterproof jackets. Hope that helps.
 
E

EM - Ross

Thru Hiker
Myles21 said:
And tell me again, why not the rain jacket as a windproof? I mean, if I'm having to carry it anyway, why not let it earn its place in my pack by serving as a wind barrier too? Too heavy and hot? Is that a rain jacket is not so comfortable hike in?
Click to expand...

You need to weigh your own experience with your previous goretex jacket against the advice being offered.
 
M

Myles21

Section Hiker
Thanks everyone, that's helpful and things are becoming clearer. Up until recently all my gear has been fairly traditional, which is absolutely fine of course, but a renewed enthusiasm for the outdoors has led me to see that I need to wise up a bit and lighten my load, hence the hundreds of questions on this site. Windshirts are not something I've ever considered before, though the sense of them is becoming apparent. I'll most certainly be looking into your recommendations, thanks.
 
Baldy

Baldy

Thru Hiker
Myles
have a look at Sportshoes.com for cheap windproofs.

aaand, what you really need to lighten your load and get comfortable are a pair of football training shorts and cycling leg warmers :)..make you sure you get the right size though :(
 
gixer

gixer

Thru Hiker
Just to throw another spanner into the works, if rain is a possibility i don't take a windproof, i take my waterproof jacket.

In my experience windproofs aren't really THAT much more breathable than a decent waterproof, i've got a couple of windproof jackets for cycling and a Montane for hiking, if you put the thumbscrews on me and electrocuted my man bits i'd still say my waterproof jacket breathes better than any of my windproofs.

Plus if it's not raining then i'll just open up the front of my jacket and push it's sleeves up.

If that doesn't vent enough then i probably don't need to wear a windproof

But then as long as it's not raining i kinda like a bit of a breeze through my top layers.

For winter waterproof jackets i would recommend the Montane Further faster (or is it faster further??)
Breathable and 2 years in no de-lamination or wear problems.

Also rate my Zpacks Challenger rain jacket.
I went for the long version, so it covers a fair bit of my legs, it breathes well, i went for pit zips which help, so far it's been mega tough.
Only downsides are it looks like it was put together by a kids playschool arts and crafts group.
The fact the the outer is black and the inner is white doesn't help as it shows every seam, but i was expecting a longer jacket rather than a standard jacket with the extra length literally stuck on

It's also cut terribly.
I'm not one for fashion or looks, but even i would draw the line of going out in it when not hiking.
It hangs like a sack of potatoes.

All that aside though it does exactly what it says on the tin, technically it works very well mind
 
M

Myles21

Section Hiker
Marmot makes a nice range of jackets. Looking at the Essence, PreCip and Minimalist, the PreCip seems a good compromise of breathability, weather resistance, durability and weight. And there are some reasonable deals (£57-75) on it too. The Howies jacket is very reasonable - is it breathable do you know? Looks like a Patagonia Houdini - on which there are also some good deals (£60) and it's very well reviewed.
 
M

Myles21

Section Hiker
Budget? Hard to say, as I tend to look into things fairly thoroughly until I've decided, more or less, what it is I need. Then I start shopping around to find the best price. I find that way I end up with what suits me for what I do and it doesn't necessarily have to cost more than if I'd let budget determine my choices. Over time one finds out what works best in certain situations, but I find it very helpful to hear of, and learn from, other people's experiences. For example, I'm new to windshirts, so in order to make an informed decision I ask others, read reviews etc, and what I should be looking at becomes clearer. Then I can start looking at getting a good deal.
At the moment I'm still trying to figure out how 'serious' a rain jacket I need. And it seems a windshirt is a good idea - so I'll look at different types and see what'll work best for me.
 
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