What lightweight trekking pole shelters have smaller footprints?
- Thread starter turkeyphant
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Robert P
Thru Hiker
I can only speak from my experience, but certainly of the trekking pole tents I’ve used the two I’ve found most difficult to get a good pitch on suboptimal sites were the MLD Solomid silnylon and DCF, the latter being the less forgiving due to the lack of stretch.
As context, my goal is to achieve a taut and even/symmetrical pitch (looking for perfection…), rather than a functional but imperfect pitch.
I agree in principle mids are easy to pitch, but over the 6 years I used the Solomid I found that I was only really happy with my pitches around 10% of the time (easy enough to get the tent up, but getting it taut and even all round was a different matter; and with the low angled walls of a mid you quickly lose space if one corner is not quite right). When I switched to the Notch I found it much easier to get a pitch I was happy with, and I’d say I achieved this about 90% of the time. As others have said, get the two pitchlock ends in and you can’t go too far wrong – it is just very forgiving. Much as I prefer the X-Mid overall, I won’t contend that it is as easy to pitch well as the Notch – you need to get an accurate rectangle – but maybe due to the dual poles and steeper walls I’ve found it easier than a small mid.
I may just not have got the technique perfected with the Solomid, or the low angled walls make minor flaws in pitching very obvious, but I always found it frustrating. On the other hand it was compact and I could always get it set up and good enough to use - just not how I would like.
Mole
Thru Hiker
Got to agree with Ed n Robert.
James
Pole bases are a point of contact?
The Notch has apex guys (which with 2 poles which are far more structural than mid panel guys) and these are vastly adjustable to allow the pitching with the 2 end pegs if necessary.
I've owned (and moved on) an Older Solomid, a Solomid XL,a Cricket, and an ASTA mid. They are quick to pitch on flat ground, but what Robert says...
A few years ago.I borrowed El Manana's Notch as a trial, and after a couple trips, sold the Solomid XL and ordered my own. No regrets at all.
In my experience, the Notch just is more versatile for tight, marginal pitches. And very adjustable.
Side by side comparison on the Pennine way with Notch and Cricket, and Pembrokeshire coast path with Notch and XMid has convinced me of that.
2 pole assym vertical adjustability helps too.
2 poles means more headroom too. Like the XMid.
Similarly with the Strats.
Edit:. I do love a bigger footprint pyramid though.
And, I'm trialling a Gatewood Cape - mainly as it's so darn light and stealthy olive green, and might do me well for less mountainous, LDP type trips in Spring/summer.
James
Pole bases are a point of contact?
The Notch has apex guys (which with 2 poles which are far more structural than mid panel guys) and these are vastly adjustable to allow the pitching with the 2 end pegs if necessary.
I've owned (and moved on) an Older Solomid, a Solomid XL,a Cricket, and an ASTA mid. They are quick to pitch on flat ground, but what Robert says...
A few years ago.I borrowed El Manana's Notch as a trial, and after a couple trips, sold the Solomid XL and ordered my own. No regrets at all.
In my experience, the Notch just is more versatile for tight, marginal pitches. And very adjustable.
Side by side comparison on the Pennine way with Notch and Cricket, and Pembrokeshire coast path with Notch and XMid has convinced me of that.
2 pole assym vertical adjustability helps too.
2 poles means more headroom too. Like the XMid.
Similarly with the Strats.
Edit:. I do love a bigger footprint pyramid though.
And, I'm trialling a Gatewood Cape - mainly as it's so darn light and stealthy olive green, and might do me well for less mountainous, LDP type trips in Spring/summer.
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Robert P
Thru Hiker
After having lavished praise on the Notch, I do have one for sale!...
The crucial pitchlock ends are indeed crucial and need to be well anchored. I've often double pegged mine in the windward direction. And once suffered the indignity of watching a pitchclock peg being ripped out of the ground by a strong gust on a mountain summit as I was admiring the scenery!
Mole
Thru Hiker
Me too.In the past I found the Solomid to be a PITA on crap terrain. 3 pegs fine in but the 4th!!!
If it wasn’t decently levellish then..!!
But I’m fussy
Same with Locusgear Khufu I reckon.
Hiking lots with a mate who uses one. Majority of time, one corner seemed to be wonky and reduce internal volume. Good in wind though.
Franky
Section Hiker
Nowt beats a free standing unit
Ok it’s not a trek pole pitched shelter..
I can pitch the Copper Spur 1 on anything
Easy peasy
No stress
No faffing
Lightweight
Can even use in Winter if you aren’t too daft in choice of pitch and got lots of warm goodies
If it’s windy you can ‘carefully’ position your trek poles, handle up in the 2 Apex points
Biggest downside feature is lack of Apex guy outs. Even after requesting yearly from The Big Agnes designer gang
Latest versions got massive storage areas so frees up floor area
Pretty colour options too
Ok it’s not a trek pole pitched shelter..
I can pitch the Copper Spur 1 on anything
Easy peasy
No stress
No faffing
Lightweight
Can even use in Winter if you aren’t too daft in choice of pitch and got lots of warm goodies
If it’s windy you can ‘carefully’ position your trek poles, handle up in the 2 Apex points
Biggest downside feature is lack of Apex guy outs. Even after requesting yearly from The Big Agnes designer gang
Latest versions got massive storage areas so frees up floor area
Pretty colour options too
The serious post...
If you want to pitch a true mid 'to the ground', it's true that you need a flat pitch.
With true mids you need to work with the design and consider the pole tip in the Apex as the point on which the Mid 'floats. As long as the Mid is 'floating'and your corner guy lines are long enough every pitch should be a perfect, if sometimes draughty, pitch.
Whilst the experience of some seems to vary, the laws of physics apply and if you work with the design, a perfect pitch is always possible.
In practice, that means I will pitch the windward edge to the ground, ensure the pole is vertical, and adjust the other corners to get that perfect pitch.
Don't get me wrong. Single pole mids are compromises in the way that all shelters are, but provided you have enough space, having to compromise on a perfect pitch isn't one of them. You just have to accept the limitations/strengths of the design and work within those limits.
If you want to pitch a true mid 'to the ground', it's true that you need a flat pitch.
With true mids you need to work with the design and consider the pole tip in the Apex as the point on which the Mid 'floats. As long as the Mid is 'floating'and your corner guy lines are long enough every pitch should be a perfect, if sometimes draughty, pitch.
Whilst the experience of some seems to vary, the laws of physics apply and if you work with the design, a perfect pitch is always possible.
In practice, that means I will pitch the windward edge to the ground, ensure the pole is vertical, and adjust the other corners to get that perfect pitch.
Don't get me wrong. Single pole mids are compromises in the way that all shelters are, but provided you have enough space, having to compromise on a perfect pitch isn't one of them. You just have to accept the limitations/strengths of the design and work within those limits.
Now the less serious one...
Having had a leisurely breakfast and thought about my earlier post, I need to apologise and correct it, or submit my resignation to the worshipful company of master pedants.
I was wrong!
It is of course possible to pitch a Notch with just the two pitchlock end pegs. To do so and have some stability all you need to do is to bring the two pole handles into the centre so that there is some outward pressure on the outer where the pole tips meet the outer. Of course you couldn't then use the inner in the manner it was intended but that wasn't in Ed's design brief.
It's also entirely possible that given the curvature in the space time continuum our current assumptions about needing a minimum of three contact points to support a 3d structure is wrong, but we have yet to evidence those conditions.
Having apologised and corrected my earlier error, I now need to get back to my research on the right growing conditions for magic beans. Any tips @Mole?
Having had a leisurely breakfast and thought about my earlier post, I need to apologise and correct it, or submit my resignation to the worshipful company of master pedants.
I was wrong!
It is of course possible to pitch a Notch with just the two pitchlock end pegs. To do so and have some stability all you need to do is to bring the two pole handles into the centre so that there is some outward pressure on the outer where the pole tips meet the outer. Of course you couldn't then use the inner in the manner it was intended but that wasn't in Ed's design brief.
It's also entirely possible that given the curvature in the space time continuum our current assumptions about needing a minimum of three contact points to support a 3d structure is wrong, but we have yet to evidence those conditions.
Having apologised and corrected my earlier error, I now need to get back to my research on the right growing conditions for magic beans. Any tips @Mole?
Mole
Thru Hiker
Good mid pitching 101
But
"provided you have enough space"
This is the point we have been making.
On tight spots
If you don't have enough space to place the 4 corners of a Mid, it's tricky to pitch. But in the same spot it's likely much easier to find places for just the 2 end pegs of a Notch , and the hugely variable Apex guys further away. It's just physics....
No one is suggesting putting the pole bases together. It doesn't work that way. You sleep between them.
Edit
Gosh James.
Robert, Ed and I are basing our position on extensive use of both sorts of shelter.
And not being snarky. "Master Pedants" "Magic Beans" etc
I'd say a pole (base) is a point of contact. As is an apex guy. So a Notch even without the door pegs has 6.
But
"provided you have enough space"
This is the point we have been making.
On tight spots
If you don't have enough space to place the 4 corners of a Mid, it's tricky to pitch. But in the same spot it's likely much easier to find places for just the 2 end pegs of a Notch , and the hugely variable Apex guys further away. It's just physics....
No one is suggesting putting the pole bases together. It doesn't work that way. You sleep between them.
Edit
Gosh James.
Robert, Ed and I are basing our position on extensive use of both sorts of shelter.
And not being snarky. "Master Pedants" "Magic Beans" etc
I'd say a pole (base) is a point of contact. As is an apex guy. So a Notch even without the door pegs has 6.
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I found the Tramplite easier to pitch than my DCF Duomid and it’s pretty compact. No experience (yet ) but the Notch does look an easy to pitch tent and forgiving of ground conditions. I guess the main thing is ensuring that the end guys are firmly staked. Others will correct me if I’m wrong
) but the Notch does look an easy to pitch tent and forgiving of ground conditions. I guess the main thing is ensuring that the end guys are firmly staked. Others will correct me if I’m wrong Ok.
For clarity, a serious post...
For anyone offended by the above posts, you have my sincere apologies.
I didn't mean to come across as snarky at all, but I accept my sense of fun wasn't to everyone's taste on this occasion, and so I will stick to serious posts in future.
Apologies once again.
For clarity, a serious post...
For anyone offended by the above posts, you have my sincere apologies.
I didn't mean to come across as snarky at all, but I accept my sense of fun wasn't to everyone's taste on this occasion, and so I will stick to serious posts in future.
Apologies once again.
turkeyphant
Section Hiker
Grand. The question then becomes, are there any 2p equivalents to the Notch?
By the same logic, I'd much prefer the flexibility of one shelter that can sleep two and also be compromised to fit into smaller spaces even if there's a bit of a weight penalty.
In fact, give there's usually only about a 30% weight difference moving from 1P to 2P versions, it's worth it for the extra space when you have enough room to spread out when pitching.
WilliamC
Thru Hiker
I revel in being a master pedant, so here goes:
Ed said
I guess it hinges on exactly what Ed means by "crucial".*
*This is not to imply that I don't think that the Notch looks great for tight spaces.
Incidentally, I didn't feel that @James was being snarky but I've never met him, so I don't know if he's really a right t**t.
Ed said
but Mole says
which implies you need four pegs.
I guess it hinges on exactly what Ed means by "crucial".*
*This is not to imply that I don't think that the Notch looks great for tight spaces.
Incidentally, I didn't feel that @James was being snarky but I've never met him, so I don't know if he's really a right t**t.
WilliamC
Thru Hiker
There used to be the TT Saddle. Perhaps an improved version might become available one day.
Failing that, I'd say that the HMG Dirigo is the one that comes to mind, or something by Lightheart Gear. I'd say that both have limitations for UK weather, though.
turkeyphant
Section Hiker
Have to agree. The Cloud UP 2 is basically a Fly Creek 2 clone and, apart from the weight, does very well in pitchability, footprint and useable space.Nowt beats a free standing unit
Ok it’s not a trek pole pitched shelter..
I can pitch the Copper Spur 1 on anything
Easy peasy
No stress
No faffing
Lightweight
Can even use in Winter if you aren’t too daft in choice of pitch and got lots of warm goodies
If it’s windy you can ‘carefully’ position your trek poles, handle up in the 2 Apex points
Biggest downside feature is lack of Apex guy outs. Even after requesting yearly from The Big Agnes designer gang
Latest versions got massive storage areas so frees up floor area
Pretty colour options too
turkeyphant
Section Hiker
Shame this looks absolutely perfect. If I'm going to drop circa £500 on a tent, I don't fancy telling the missus there's no room for her!
el manana
Thru Hiker
I find an SL3 easier to pitch on restricted ground than a Cuben Duomid (but then theres restricted ground and theres restricted ground...)
The SL3 is quite forgiving of uneven ground, you can pitch over heather and rocks, you only need a flat bit for the inner floor.
The Cuben Duomid i found a pain on uneven small pitches, one corner ends up really skewed, not a problem for most people but for me a pita when trying to get separation hanging a half inner.
The SL3 is quite forgiving of uneven ground, you can pitch over heather and rocks, you only need a flat bit for the inner floor.
The Cuben Duomid i found a pain on uneven small pitches, one corner ends up really skewed, not a problem for most people but for me a pita when trying to get separation hanging a half inner.
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
Henry did say a few months ago that a new 2p tent is coming out in 2021, which has plenty of room for tall people. Maybe it's a Saddle Li? SSLi can't be made bigger due to DCF width but maybe Saddle Li is cut in a way that it might be possible.
Robert P
Thru Hiker
I have a Tramplite too... and definitely find it easier to pitch than a DCF Solomid. Not sure why, though the hexagonal shape may be a factor. I do find it takes more effort to adjust the pitching to get it right than the Notch or X-Mid, though. It is very satisfying to get a drum-tight pitch with the Tramplite, and very wind resistant when pitched back to the wind!I found the Tramplite easier to pitch than my DCF Duomid and it’s pretty compact. No experience (yet
turkeyphant
Section Hiker
Does anyone understand how the aeon gets away without a front guyline? Assume this extreme is not possible with either the notch or any of the SS.
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
the PitchLoc™ corners are implemented in combination with a structural awning to increase head/shoulder room and create static equilibrium so that both front doors can be completely rolled back without the need for a forward guyline.
I reckon it's the cross strut and the tensegrity created by the pitchlock corners allow that.
tom
Thru Hiker
I bought at TT Rainbow a long time ago which I'd consider more amenable to tight spaces (GR20 tight spaces was the reason I got it) than the Notch (my main to go to shelter for multi week hikes for many years now). The rainbow has its liabilities but deserves a mention since I've not seen a 1.5 person shelter with that small footprint elsewhere.
Another shelter for tight spaces is the Zpacks hexamid soloplus. I managed to squeeze this into pitches I wouldn't have gotten a Notch into. Its a bit on the small side (inside) and I've had occasions where I was unable to pitch securely enough for the wind conditions due to challenging terrain (I would have easily pitched a Notch there). No other other option but packing up and looking for better spot. As others mentioned, single pole cuben shelters are bit vulnerable to terrain issues. I was a bit apprehensive when I switched from my silnylon Notch to a cuben Notch but the 2 poles work pretty well to compensate and as edh says, you only really need to 2 apex guys - the other guys are quite amenable to all sorts of complications. In comparison, the hexamid needs 6 pretty high quality tie out points to achieve its shape.
Another shelter for tight spaces is the Zpacks hexamid soloplus. I managed to squeeze this into pitches I wouldn't have gotten a Notch into. Its a bit on the small side (inside) and I've had occasions where I was unable to pitch securely enough for the wind conditions due to challenging terrain (I would have easily pitched a Notch there). No other other option but packing up and looking for better spot. As others mentioned, single pole cuben shelters are bit vulnerable to terrain issues. I was a bit apprehensive when I switched from my silnylon Notch to a cuben Notch but the 2 poles work pretty well to compensate and as edh says, you only really need to 2 apex guys - the other guys are quite amenable to all sorts of complications. In comparison, the hexamid needs 6 pretty high quality tie out points to achieve its shape.